Grade The Meetings-- Heck, Grade Anything!

Interesting read:

It looks like Toronto and Wells are going to try to get something done, - contract wise- before Jan 1st. It sounded like Wells was open to the idea of staying. Of course, that depends on the money, but Toronto has plenty of that considering they just lost out on the two pitchers they were pursuing. Toronto still needs pitching, but now they have more funds available to sign Wells.

If nothing else this will give Ned an idea of how much Wells will be seeking as far as an extension is concerned. It’s projected that Wells could get $20 million, per, in the market.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754693&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

WOW. THATS SCARY. I AGREE 100% WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT.
BK, YOU GOT POTENTIAL.

IF THE MARKET STAYS OVERPRICED, I DON'T HAVE A
PROBLEM SEEING WHAT EITHER AND KEMP CAN DO IN
2007.SIGNING GONZO FOR ONE YEAR STILL LEAVES ROOM
FOR THE KIDS. I STILL REALLY WANT TO SEE LONEY
GET SOME PLAYING TIME. I'M STILL REALLY HIGH ON
LONEY AND KUO. NOT TOO MANY HARD THROWING LEFTIES
OUT THERE. LOVE TO HAVE TWO QUALITY LEFTIES IN THE
ROTATION.
I LIKE THE WAY WE KEEP ADDING QUALITY CHARACTERS
TO OUR CLUB. ABSOLUTELY GONZO AND NOMAR CAN SHOW
THE KIDS HOW TO GET IT DONE IN A PROFESSIONAL
MANNER.

BAD PENNY- THROW IT AWAY.

I think the Dodgers would have been a nice fit for Bonds this year. We can use his bat and his nemisis status with Dodgers fans would keep his home run celebration breif and sterile but polite-just what major league baseball wants.

Wes

WAY TO GO SKIP!!!!!!!

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A REALLY NICE YEAR
FROM BILLZ. HE WAS JUST HITTING HIS STRIDE WHEN
HE GOT HURT LAST YEAR.
LOWE, SCHIMDT, BILLZ, WOLF AND KUO.

BAD PENNY- FIND NEW HOME.

Stargazin-

Imagine how much more you'd trust my opinion if I had a moustache.

BK

BK- I THOUGHT YOU DID.

I think im the only one that wants to keep penny, at around 8 million for the next two seasons he is still a good deal. He just needs to lose some lbs and he will be fine. The dodgers pen is deep and he just needs to go 6.Would u rather have a l6 game winner for that money compared to meche,lilly etc????? its all about pitching and defense and the dodgers have both.

There's also this bit about Wells,

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1165558118278520.xml&coll=1

It seems to me like a lot of this talk is being generated to try and raise the market for Wells. There really isn't any need for the Mets to go after Wells, especially if it means giving up their biggest bargaining chips.

I'm interested to see what this team can do, although I can see Colletti trying to work something to upgrade at 3B if the opportunity arises.

i hope we get a slugger, but i think we're in solid shape now. i think loney can provide some pop and step up the way ethier and martin did last year. i think playing ethier, pierre, loney, and gonzo strategically in the outfield may not be all that bad. plus anderson will be there to back them up and kemp might be able to contribute some by mid-year. that said, vernon wells would be nice.

also, in the infield, i think betemit for a full year will add some pop. it looks like kent is going hardcore in the offseason with his own trainer to get past the injuries and that will help.

with respect to pitchers, given wolf and penny's history of injuries, it may be a good idea to keep six and then pop in kuo from the pen when one of these two goes down during the year.

the bottom line is that i think that there is more pop on our current club than we think and also that keeping six starters may be not be such a bad idea.

taxdizzle,

I think the 'wait and see' approach is the best way to handle the Penny situation. I don't mind Penny as a pitcher either, and if first half Penny shows up, he can be quite a force (just imagine the three headed monster of Schmidt, Lowe, and an effective Penny). But, if Penny isn't great, and he ends up standing in the way of Billingsley or Kuo, then he will go the way of Odalis Perez.

My guess is, barring any major injuries, Penny will not be with the Dodgers for the entire 2007 season, but we'll probably have to wait until the trade deadline to see him go.

NICE PIC. NED AND TOM SELLECK. TWINS SEPARATED
AT BIRTH?????

Taxdizzle,
I don't argue the fact that Penny looks like a bargain at today's going prices and he will be somewhat effective, numbers wise. That's why he would be even better as TRADE BAIT. He HAS VALUE NOW! The market for pitchers is outrageous and the Dodgers have plenty to spare. Penny is a CANCER. He is good, but in his BIG HEAD he thinks he is better than he actually is... that's what happens when an idiot gets voted to the All-Star game and starts. Grady can't handle the big baby, so we need to trade him.

Of course BK my "baiting" was for a thread about the alledged tampering charges against Boston during the Drew debacle. That being said I'll take this opportunity to re-post from the last thread....

Wonder what we might get in a settlement against Boston for tampering with J.D. Drew?
"Yes, Mr. Selig, we have decided that we will take David Ortiz as compensation for losing Drew. J.D. was such a 'vital' cog in our team last year and replacing him has been near impossible. In fact, we feel that Boston indeed was trying to blackmail us by taking our star player and then offering us Manny Ramirez at an insanely high price of talent. This clear 'shake-down' by the collaboration between Scott Boras and Theo Epstein can only be rectified by our obtaining Boston's premiere player for the same $100,000 sum that Boston received from the Yankees for Babe Ruth. Thus we hope to start another century-long Red Sox championship drought."
How popular would Drew be in Boston after that?

And now onto another note filed in the "Houston we've got a problem," department. Check out this snippet from the Blue Jays GM in an article regarding Vernon Wells.

"Ricciardi also made one thing clear where Wells is concerned: If he enters trade talks, he will not allow a potential partner to speak with Wells and try to pre-arrange a contract extension so a trade can be made.

"If they want him, they've got to deal with it," Ricciardi said of the ticking clock on Wells' contract. "We're dealing with it.""

That's bad news. There's no way I give up multiple quality players (prospects or otherwise)for a guy we might lose after one year. Maybe I'd take a chance on Penny for Wells straight up with no guarantees, but Ricciardi must realize that if he wants to get a decent package for Wells, any team would want to negotiate first. There must be a strategy to these remarks.

What kind of garbage is that?

"Ricciardi also made one thing clear where Wells is concerned: If he enters trade talks, he will not allow a potential partner to speak with Wells and try to pre-arrange a contract extension so a trade can be made.”

Sounds like the Moneyball geek is pouting…

“"If they want him, they've got to deal with it," Ricciardi said of the ticking clock on Wells' contract. "We're dealing with it."

It’s no wonder I used to beat the crap out of geeks like him (the arrogant, nerdy, geeky, ivy league type).

Anyways, I don’t think this is such a big deal. If Toronto is unable to sign him the last offer than was made will likely be leaked. That will give Colletti a good idea of what Wells is looking for. The $20 million, per, is already out there. Ned will only make this trade if he is willing to commit the time and money to Wells. I think Ned would be able to get something done.

i agree with the wait and see deal.... u never know which way those two young guys are going to go and kuo has had two Tommy johns on his resume. I just hate to see a guy that has been a big part of a world series team and an all star starter[agree with or not he was the starter and there was a reason he was put there} go to give way to a guy in the last year of his deal and is going to get paid 20 million per. Penny is only going to be 28 years old , I would never give up an arm for a bat straight up thats just me though.

BAD PENNY.

Guys:

I simply cannot hold this question any longer...IS THAT A RUG COLLETTI IS WEARING?

Gawds, from that pic it looks like the worst rug....EVER...if that is really his hair, um, well, wow...bad hair day or what!!???

About Wells, um...if they won't allow a negotiation, screw 'em.

Keep Penny and throw the SOB out there until his arm falls off, make him go 8-innings everytime out and see how fast he starts thowing more strikes. End of story. Make him shape up or burn him up just to save the arms in the pen...I am dead serious about doing that...

dodgerskip, LoLo,

I have a solution for the stance Ricciardi is taking; one word, tampering!

Everyone's doin it!!

The Dodgers are dealing from a position of power, not weakness. They already have one of the best, if not the best, starting rotations in the National League. They've got speed. Their defense ain't bad. They don't have a dominant power guy, but they do have a lot of players capable of putting up 20 dingers per year: Definitely Bettemit, No-mah, Gonzo, and Kent; possibly Ethier and Martin; Furcal could get 15 again this year.

No need to panic. No need to hurry and make a stupid move. Again, with Kemp coming fast, I still think the Dodgers would be better off getting a third baseman like Scott Rolen rather than an outfielder (especially at $12M per year for the next 4 years as opposed the $20M+ per year that a guy like Wells will command).

If Ned is really patient, as the trade deadline approaches next summer, it will be the Dodgers who will be dictating terms to the teams needing that front line starting pitcher for the playoff push.

Len

GRUMP- I HAVE STUDIED JUST THAT QUESTION VERY
EXTENSIVELY. HAVING WATCHED NUMEROUS INTERVIEWS,
I AM CONVINCED THAT IS HIS HAIR. JUST A BAD DO.

IF WE LEFT PENNY OUT THERE FOR 8 INNINGS HE
WOULD GIVE UP 16 RUNS.
ACTUALLY HIS PROBLEM IS NOT THROWING STRIKES.
HE JUST GETS A TON OF PITCHES FOULED OFF.

GRUMP- BE NICE. NED'S MY HERO. HE'S SAVING US.

anyone else think about what Penny would get salary wise this year if he was a FA? $10-$12M MINIMUM. Just by looking at what the other rags are getting this season.

So, heck yah, stick his plump arse out there for 8-innings every outing. Screw the pitch counts and the idea of winning more then say a .500 percentage for his games. Put the scrubs on the field and let him flap in the breeze as the sacrificial meat each week.

If he begins to shape up, fine, give him a better chance, if he still acts the petulant child, then again screw him...let him know what that sort of effort will earn him. Make it feel like he is starting for KC as their 5th starter on quarter-beer night...

Why my 'tude toward Penny? He has the game but truly has a Penny brain...so, get your $8M/yr outta him by relegating him to the basement until he comes around. He can be the "spit bucket boy" until then and the Dodgers can drop his weekly check into the bottom of the full bucket and let him fish it out...

Geeze, if he would come around the rotation would actually be very solid this season...Lowe, Schmidt, Penny, Wolf, Billz/Kuo. I love that staff of starters plus there is Stultz in LV...adding Schmidt and Wolf really did strengthen the staff...I think the season really does hang on Penny's growing up from last season. If he does, the staff is lights out, if not then a couple kids will need to step up.

i know that we always teased drew about being a "princess" but we are gonna his big stick

dont forget he had 100 rbis

and that he had a really high on base percentage.

luis gonzales is an over the hill veteran type player

schmidt was a great pickup

the giants are gonna suck in 2007

and thank god they kept nomar

happy holidays anyone !

Eric:

I really don't think the Dodgers as they currently are setup will miss her at all. I do hear what you are saying though he was not awful last season at all...just was not, well, great either. I feel that is the bottom line with Drew. He just is not great. And really not great is not needed. I hope he has a wonderful career in Bawstun but somehow doubt he will...

stargazin:

Thanks dude, I had not noticed Colletti to have rugs before so that pic really got me wondering...ya have to admit it really looks bad there...and NED IS THE MAN and has brought the Dodgers back to a level many here grew up with. It's a wild ride when they get rolling and everyone is behind them...and Ned is the reason it all happened. We LOVE NED...and not in a man-crush way but as a "your-the-man" 3am drunk kinda "...love you maaaan..." sorta way.

Ned #1
KBros #2, 3
LoLo #31
stargazin #44
USC...did not show in poll...

Grump,

"Why my 'tude toward Penny? He has the game but truly has a PENNY brain..." hahaha... I've been trying to describe how I feel about Penny and you hit it on the nose!! Perfect!!

Like you said, IF Penny came around and wasn't a BABY HUEY anymore, I would definitely root for him. He does have stuff and has proved he has it but his attitude sucks so badly that the minus is greater than his plus side. That's why I said to TRADE HIM THIS YEAR b/c he has WORTH this year and we should be able to get something of value for him. Plus the fact that we will likely be ok w/o him. But again, if he grows up and does his job like a man, then the Dodgers would DOMINATE w/ their pitching and would definitely make the Playoffs.

Food for thought:

Granted, of all our starting pitchers, 'Bad' Penny is the one that we'd like to see go--AND has trade value (that latter part leaves out Bomko & Hendrickson). But, he IS signed for 2 years at a modest price given the current going rate for quality starters. D. Lowe, on the other hand, is a free agent after this year. If he has another 15 (or more) win season this year, he might price himself right into a 17 or 18 mil contract with the Yankees or BoSox. So... if we are building for the future, should Lowe be the pitcher we should be dangling? Or, at the very least, should we be trying to sign him to an extension before we lose him? Or, is he not someone that we want to build around and rather have him for one more year and then go with Stultz, Kuo, Miller, or Houlton etc in '08 instead. Just thinking out loud.

Given the fact that Gonzo is 40ish, I'm really surprised that the Giants didn't make more of an effort to sign him. He's the poster-child for the type of player they try to bring in. Old, productive, veteran who might have one more good year left. i.e. Steve Finley, Moises Alou, Barry Bonds, Dave Roberts, Omar Vizquel, Ray Durham, etc..

Under the heading of "Best Line of the Night." Ken Rosenthal on BDSSP last night....

"There was only one other 'player' at the Winter Meetings shopping himself to teams other than Barry Bonds. That was Lance Carter."

OUCH!!!!! How the mighty have fallen...Poor Lance Carter having to hear himself compared to Barry Bonds (insert rimshot here).

Continuing with my late-night random babbling...

BK asked for us to "grade anything" this thread. So why night grade the team as it stands now.

Starting Pitching:
A- ....Great depth (unless we trade more than 2 of the 9 starters on our roster, then it's okay depth). Experienced. Winners. The "-" is that there is no TRUE "A1" stud like a Randy Johnson of 5 years ago who WILL win 20 games if healthy. But we'll have a rotation that could have five 15 game winners if they stay healthy and not very many teams can say that.

Lineup:
B+.....Quality from 1 to 8 (consider that our #8 hitter will probably be either Martin, Ethier, Betemit or maybe Loney on a night Nomar rests) Great blend of veterans (Gonzo, Kent, Nomar) and kids (Betemit, Martin, Ethier). Tremendous speed at the top of the order to set the table (come on, who else in the league has guys at 1 & 2 who could steal 50 for you?)(BTW...please DON'T put Furcal at the #3 spot--if he starts feeling like he HAS to hit home runs it could ruin him. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.) Potential for injury (Nomar, Kent) is worrisome. And, kind of like the starting pitching, this lineup currently lacks that one power-stud to make a pitcher's jock turn yellow and provide multiple runs with one swing on a consistent basis..i.e. Albert Pujols. If the Dodgers do find a stud for the middle, and everyone stays reasonably healthy, this lineup goes from B+ to A+ instantly.

Bench:
A.....The killer Tomato, Marlon Anderson, Liberthal, Repko, Ramon Martinez, Loney, Jason Werth. Quite a few teams out there would be much improved if these guys were their starters. Experienced. Productive. Comfortable in their roles. "Team guys." Versatile. What more could you really ask for.

Bullpen:
B-....Solid, but not striking fear into anyone. Filled with guys who would rather be starting, which might cause for some tension in the clubhouse. Although, having 3 or 4 potential starters in your pen certainly gives you options if a starter goes down or is struggling. Situational lefty may be a pariah. Set-up man is young and prone to mental lapses. Closer is going into his potential "sophomore-slump" year (although technically he's not a true sophomore) and one wonders if last year's success was a fluke or a pattern. If Gagne resigns and proves to be healthy, and everyone drops down a slot behind him, again you'll have an "A" grade. If some of the wannabe starters (Dessens, Hendrickson, Tomko) are traded for established middle-relievers, you could still have an "A" pen without a Gagne if Saito proves to be the real deal.

Overall team...
A-.....If the season started today, I'd say 92 wins (and probable berth in NLCS). If you add one mega-star, A+ (97 to 105) wins and a berth in the classic. Of course, I must add the disclaimer...IF EVERYONE STAYS HEALTHY!!

Well, THE BUNDY'S HAVE MOVED TO LAS VEGAS...

hehehehe...new manager for the 51s and it's possible he's Al Bundy's cousin.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061129&content_id=146749&vkey=news_t400&fext=.jsp&sid=t400

Looks like the Dodgers picked the Diamondbacks pocket in addition to Gonzales. Cool!!

Interesting that Mike Easler has moved up from AA as hitting coach. He must have been the guy who had Kemp hitting before he slumped. So since Kemp is moving to the 51s it looks as if the Dodgers want to keep the combo together. Good Mike "The Hitman" Easler, dude could really rake in his day and was part of the "We Are Fam-i-ly" Pirates in the late 70s...great pedigrees for both of them!!

I read in Saturday morning's paper how Andy Pettite "agonized" over his decision to sign.

Houston "lowballed" at $12 million, the Yankees outbid them. Let's see, $12 million sounds to me like one million a month (plus everything he's already earned over the years).

Hey, Andy, and all of you other greedy jerks. As much as I love baseball, your priorities are way out of whack. Millions of Americans can't afford their drug prescriptions and you're whining about a million a month?

Ned Colletti has brought intelligence to the GM position. He's calculated with his moves and he does a lot. This guy brings intergrity to the GM post.

mike

Dodgerskip,

Happily, Derek Lowe's contract with the Dodgers runs for two more seasons, through 2008. :-)

Len

Len
Really? I was sure that he had signed a 3 year deal back 2 years ago. A 4 year deal is good news. So, in that case, please disregard previous post.

Dodgerskip,

Nice analysis! I like the idea of trading B-list starters for established middle relievers. The bullpen is so darn important. Was it two or three years ago, when the Dodgers had the best bullpen in baseball, that ridiculous record of something like 52-1 when they were leading after the 6th inning?

We have Broxton to pitch the 8th now. Saito to close. We still need a lock-down guy to pitch the 7th and we are in good shape. Tomko was doing that for a awhile last season, but then he lost the magic.

I'm still smarting over Ned's trade last year with the Mets where they ended up fleecing the Dodgers (and put a big hole in the bullpen) by stealing Duaner Sanchez from us for Seo and Hamulack. If only we still had Sanchez...

Len

Nice to hear what your enemies are saying. From the San Francisco Chronicle:

Dodgers are close to a winner

While the Giants pin their hopes on a man who turns 43 in July and will face a season's worth of innuendo about Human Growth Hormone or post-steroid breakdown, depending on how his body holds up, it's important to notice what's happening in the rest of the division. The Dodgers, for example, are one strong move away from clinching it right now.

Even with a glaring weakness in the power department, general manager Ned Colletti never even considered Barry Bonds (unlike the Giants, his former employer, Colletti gets it). Now, with the acquisition of Jason Schmidt as a front-line starter and Randy Wolf as a likely fixture in the rotation, Colletti can offer the man who started last year's All-Star game, Brad Penny, in trade.

The emotional, self-obsessed Penny can be such a load for his teammates, you wonder who'd be interested -- but there's always a market for baggage in this business, from Sidney Ponson to Jose Mesa to Julian Tavarez. Last year at this time, Toronto took a risky (and foolish) gamble on A.J. Burnett. Now, to hear some tell it, the Jays would consider trading Vernon Wells to the Dodgers in a deal involving Penny.

It's just a rumor, most of which prove to be patently wrong. If this happens, though -- or if the Dodgers land a slugger elsewhere -- they will be by far the most complete team in the N.L. West.

The top of the order starts with two of the most disruptive offensive forces in the game, Juan Pierre and Rafael Furcal (Pierre has his faults, but there's no ridiculing 204 hits). The heart of the order features Jeff Kent, Nomar Garciaparra and freshly signed Luis Gonzalez, one of the game's classiest veterans and a man who cracked 52 doubles for Arizona last year. A fragile group, no doubt, but highly influential if healthy.

In bypassing Manny Ramirez and other questionable-sounding deals, the Dodgers managed to keep all of their top prospects -- probably the most talented group in all of baseball. They lost J.D. Drew, who opted out of his contract and signed with Boston, but some say they won't miss Drew's disabled-list mentality and passionless approach. They re-signed Takashi Saito, keeping him in the closer's role, and acquired an ideal backup catcher (to Russell Martin) in Mike Lieberthal.

Most importantly, there's a universal feeling around Dodger Stadium that the team is onto something -- which is more than you can say about the Giants. For the snapshot that says it all, capture the smile on Stan Conte's face. He's the world-class trainer who left the Bonds snake pit and has hooked up with an honest team in a real clubhouse.

Gotta love it...

Yeah, I too have rolled my eyes more than a few times over the last year wishing we would have never made that Sanchez trade. That was one where the new coaches, manager, and general manager coming in, just didn't realize how valuable an assest he was. They figured, "We can get a starter and a lefty reliever for a righty reliever, yeah good move." We can now play "follow the trail of players" as you did with the Piazza trade a few weeks back. Seo was traded with Navarro for Hendrickson & Hall. Navarro was obtained for Shawn Green and about 16 million dollars (Green's salary). So, we got Hendrickson & Hall for, get this: Duaner Sanchez, Shawn Green and 16 million. I don't think we'll recoup that when we probably dump both "Timber" & Hall before the season starts.

The Dodgers HAD the best bullpen until DePud blew it up. Haven't recovered yet.

I'm still very unsure of the 'pen. Not much of a track record with Broxton and Saito and teams have a way of figuring out relief pitchers the next year. Bombko and Timberrr strike fear into my heart, not opposing teams.

A note about our boy, Lance Carter. I feel for the guy. He was pretty good at one time, but lost it, especially his control. I remember reading about how he sent video to his father, asking him to help, what was he doing wrong. He'll end up overseas for awhile, then come back here.

Well, Carter had at least one fan in Terry Collins, who's taking him to Japan this season.

Check out what those crybabies in Beantown are talking about:

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171207&srvc=home

Does anyone think that there might still be some interest in Zito, and then trading Penny? I know it sounds crazy but what are your thoughts? I'm probably just crazy.

PACKAGE- YOU KRAZY.

PACK- J/K. I THINK ZITO'S OUT OF THE PICTURE NOW.
WAY TOO MUCH MONEY, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.
AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED WE'VE GOT TWO QUALITY LEFTY
STARTERS IN KUO AND WOLF. I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES
WITH THOSE TWO.

P.S. WELCOME ABOARD. AND DON'T BE AFRAID TO POST.
ALL OPINIONS ARE VALID AND WELCOME.

Makoto,
Thanks for the article.
It's almost like Scott BorASS, wrote it. And to think I rooted for the Redsox when they won that one year....Shheess!

Hi Dodger fans. After watching Schmidts shoulder fail more and more every year and his velocity drop, why do you think we did not re-sign him? I figure you guys are going to pay about 1.5 million per victory over the life of the contract. Watch for the signing next week, Zito's staying in the bay area-just on our side of the bay and Richie Sexton will be coming to play first base. We're back on top in 07 and you guys are chasing the wild card.

Dodgerdog:

You are dead solid perfect when talking about players "agonoizing" over multi-million dollar offers to PLAY baseball. Sure they want to make the best decision for the family, but that has no basis in reality when they are already earning millions/yr.

I think we all have bills, unexpected expenses and the turn of an unfriendly card to deal with in life. We should each be so "unlucky" as each and every player who gets to put on an MLB (or any sport) uniform to pay the bills...

Hugo,

It's kind of like the Red Sox are admitting guilt if they start wildly throwing around irrelevant counter accusations. So what if Little and Jauss tried to call Manny? Epstein had absolutely no intention of actually making the trade.

My favorite part of the article is the last line:

According to a GM not involved in the Drew matter, the belief among GMs at the winter meetings was split regarding whether the Sox may have tampered.
“Actually, most GMs feel it was a stupid sign and they did the Dodgers a favor,” he said.

In reality, though, Drew would be pretty good as a 6th batter, considering his OBP and intermittent power, and he's a decent fielder. The weirdest part is the fact that the Sox were willing to shell out that kind of money to someone they plan to use as a role player.

Giants Fan,

If Zito and Sexson are all it takes to turn your team into winners, Bruce Bochy is the best manager of all time.

Giants Fan:

The ONLY reason you guys didn't resign Schmidt is because the Giants don't have the money. You can blame that on the Giants' decision to privately finance that beautiful park on SF Bay a few years back.

Quoting owner Peter McGowan: "The "mortgage" is approximately $20 million a year. In addition, we also contribute approximately $5 million in taxes and rent to the city. This, though, is just a part of the financial commitment our ownership group has made. We bought the Giants for $100 million. We invested another $120 million to pay for cash losses, most of which were incurred in the Candlestick era, and then we put ourselves on the hook for $170 million for our privately financed ballpark."

In other words, the new park is basically costing the Giants the equivalent of a $20M player on their roster each season, and it will continue to do so for the next 13 years. When you figure the Giants are also saddled with paying a declining Bonds $16M more, and you can see the reason Brian Sabean is stuck signing Bonds and surrounding him with a bunch of bargain basement, very old guys who are, for the most part, way past their prime.

If I was a Giants fan, I would be preparing myself for nothing but misery over the next 15 years or so, whether or not you can scrape up enough change from under McGowan's sofa cushions to sign Zito.

I wish I could say I was sympathetic to the Giants' plight, but I'm not. In fact, I'm actually pretty stoked about it.

Hopefully, Frank McCourt learns from Peter McGowan's mistake and never tries to build a privately financed new stadium.

Hey, at least you Giants fans can look forward to the garlic fries being good over the next 15 years or so.

Here is the link where I got the McGowan quote: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/sf/news/sf_news.jsp?ymd=20041021&content_id=901787&vkey=news_sf&fext=.jsp

Len

Makoto-

Either way, if I ever hear the Sox complain again about how much the Yankees spend, I'll vomit. Previously, I merely gagged.

BK

I find the Red Sox/tampering story both hilarious and great theatre. I also love the final quote about how the Red Sox did the Dodgers a favor by signing the Princess.

But on the alleged Dodger tampering....how can there possibly be tampering when it comes to Manny Ramirez? Aren't we treated every couple of months to a story about how he wants to be traded or how Boston WANTS to move him? Is there ANY team that hasn't talked to him or about him?

Fear not, Sox fans. The Princess will go 4-for-4 in all 19 games you play against those mighty Devil Rays. But, during the so-called clash of the titans, every single one carried on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPN 360, from every angle possible, she will pop out weakly or take a walk when there is a chance to drive in a key run. That will leave it up to Lugie to drive it in.

By my count that's two Cardinal references in one post for BK. I'm starting the cardinal journal (a bit like the PJ Journal for those of you that follow the other blog as well) that will track each time that BK references the Cardinals or alludes to the 2006 World Series whose winner won with the worst record for a playoff team in the history of modern athletics (that's totally true, look it up if you don't believe me. Every few weeks I'll publish the journal and show you guys that, much like "fair and balanced" Fox News, AK and BK are the Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannitty of the blogging community.

Len, thanks for the business lesson on the Giants. Do you think this is the first time we have heard of how the Giants paid for our waterfront gem. In April 06, Forbes put the value of the Franchise at 410 million. I do not think it is going down, do you? I think MR. McGowen and his partners will continue to wisely increase the value of the franchise, such as keeping a viable team on the field.
Jason was a great pitcher for a couple of years, and unfourtunately a little more than average the last two. Why? He is sadly breaking down. You guys were really the only team to step up and it is going to cost you over the next few years. Trust me, we loved Jason, but his production will not justify the money. Let me know in August how you feel after his record is around 8 and 8, era in the high 4's, and he is missing starts, walking the bases loaded and giving up 500 foot 3 run jacks. This is the Schmidt he has unfourtunately become and we have seen the last 2 years. Right now, the Giants have about 70mil per year allocated on short term contracts. We will sign at least two more "names" before long.

By the way, the Garlic fries smell much better than they taste. Kind of like the allure of signing a declining pitcher based on success that occured long ago.

Hugo,
Sexton at 1st, Durham at 2nd, Omar at short, Feiz and Richie at 3rd, Molina behind the plate. Bonds, Roberts, Winn in the outfield. Cain, Lowry, Hennessy, Zito,Morris, Sanchez plus all the young studs of which at least two who will make the pitching staff this spring. Were are the holes? Looks like a good year to me.

Bathtub-

I only counted one, and it acknowledged how freakish the whole thing was. Why so bitter? It's not like I threw you in the pool. Sean Hannity? That's low.

BK

Giant Fan,
Are ALL Giants this delusional? I admire you're love for your team, but lets not be so optimistical. You have ptesented the Best Case Scenario in dreamland. I hope for all Giants fans that you are remotely close to your predictions

BK,
I don't know who Hannity is, but I find it worrisome you weren't offended by the O'Reilly reference. haha

Bathtub Dizzyrag Cosby (If that really is your name),

So long as the journal makes use of the phrases "Division," "better record," and "Where's Dorn," I welcome whatever you have to say.

AK

They're obviously smoking good s**t up there in Frisco.
Good Luck Losers!

Giants Fan:

You're on Mars!! The only Barry you're getting in orange and black is the one on steroids. The feelings on Schmiddy are just sour grapes....the Giants pitching staff is HORRIFIC!! Richie Sexton is too young to play on the San Francisco Senior Citizens....why not go out and sign Keith Hernandez to play first??

Giants fan,

I didn't know you guys signed Zito!!

Hmm??

Giants Fan,

I think too much of that San Francisco fog has gotten lodged between your ears.

I'm puzzled by your repeated contention that Schmidt is "breaking down". In fact your argument smacks more like sour grapes from the Napa Valley. What do you base your argument on? His innings pitched have been consistent over the past 4 years, averaging over 200 per season. His ERA actually dropped by almost a full run last season to 3.59. True his win total over the past year has dropped from 17, 18, 12, and 11 - but that coincides with the decline of the quality of the Giants team over the last four years.

And what is the big deal about Richie Sexton? The guy leads the Majors in strike outs (or is in the top 5) every year. He is the modern version of Dave Kingman.

As for Dave Roberts, at 35, he fits the Giants' MO of hiring mature players, but he is a significant downgrade from Moises Alou.

Bengi Molina is another one of those guys who make DL Drew look like an ironman in the vein of Cal Ripken Jr. I don't think Molina has played 100 games in a season his entire career.

And Pedro Feliz is great if you like a guy who will give you 20 HRs while batting under .250 with an OBP less than .300.

Meanwhile, Vizquel is 40, and Bonds at 42 is clearly in decline now that he is no longer using steroids.

If your pitching staff lives up to its promise you guys will be lucky to go 75-87 this year.

So Giants Fan, I guess I do agree with you when you say "it looks like a good year to me".

Len

Len;
No sour grapes on Jason Schmidt. He is a class act, tremendous competeter, and all around good man to have around. Unfourtunately, his pitching shoulder is going. I attend a bunch of games and watch almost all the rest on TV. He is not going to last and it is a shame. He was one of the most dominent pitchers we have had since Marichal. (sorry Johhny Rosebero)
Sexton is going to provide the Home run threat behind Barry to make sure he sees some pitches. If you watched Barry in the second half last year I think you would agree you can expect about 30-32 knocks this year, 90 to 100 rbi's, .280 average and on base % around .475. Feliz is in a hitting school in the Dominicun learning to stay away from the low outside slider so I think he will improve on his 95 plus ribbies and bring up the average. Part of Molina's contract is that he has to drop some weight and report 30 days early to camp, so this will increase his durability and we still have a very solid albeit inexpierienced back up. Roberts will give us a lead off man who can actually get on base and steal, something we have not had in years. Alou was and still is a hitter, but his defense is lacking and getting worse due to the knees and ankles. He was on the DL 4 times last year, twice going out running to first and once just swinging the bat. I too was shocked when we signed Vizquel a couple
le years ago, but if you watch him dailey, he moves like he is still 25 and is a magician. Look for another great year from him, he is nowhere near done. Durham, Aurilla and Winn are solid pros who;s numbers are steady and still in their prime. With Bochy at the helm, ya it WILL be a good year. One big intangible we will have that the Dodgers always seem to lack will make the difference. It's called HEART. You can't buy it no matter how hard you try.

I just can't help myself, I see cardinal and I lash out

MATT MORRIS lives

Giants Fan,

I admit you got HEART. You must if you're defending the Giants team of 2007!? Wow! I thought at first you were a fraud (Lolo in disguise) but even Lolo can't spew out the stuff you're saying, even for fun.

I don't know if the 2007 Giants have ENOUGH HEART to contend.... I don't know if HEART can help THAT MUCH!

I disagree that the Dodgers don't have HEART. We have a lot of Heart...it might of seemed like we didn't have heart in some games but we got rid of that guy...J.D. Watch the 2007 Dodgers and you'll see what HEART is about b/c NOW we have TALENT to go with the HEART.

Wake up Giants Fan,
If you believe Barroid has heart then I can see where you are under the misguided notion that the Giants have more heart than other teams. You poor misguided, have never won a World Series in San Francisco, slobs. You've been had, HAHAAAAAHA!!

Any chance you delusional Gnats fans had left with Colletti.

unlike the giants gm the dodger's gm actually does instead of talks. Sexton isnt even on ur team and what do u have to give up to get him????? Im glad u re-signed bonds so when furcal and pierre hit the ball to left field the doubles will turn into triples. Enjoy second place for the next decade or so u guys can come and buy tickets to watch the dodgers in the playoffs.

Like I said, Bruce Bochy better be one hell of a manager if Dave Robers and Rich Aurilia are going to improve the Giants by 15 games.

Rob,

"I thought at first you were a fraud (Lolo in disguise) but even Lolo can't spew out the stuff you're saying, even for fun."

HAHA! Actually, I never pose as someone else. Stragazin, on the other hand...

I don't know why all of you are humoring this guy. He's obviously delusional and just trolling around. The Gnats will be lucky to NOT finish in last place. Worst thing for them is that they have absolutely NO HOPE for many years to come. I absolutely LOVE IT!

Thanks alot, Giants Fan!!! Because of you, my work's IT department is going to be P!SSED at me for a long time. When I read your comment that Rich "Aurilla is still in his prime," I had an involuntary relfex that made me spray coffee all over my computer & monitor.

Oh well, thanks for making my work-week start off with a great laugh, Giants Fan.

http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/images/coffee-spill.jpg

It's easy to see why Schmidt got the hell out of there. They're a mess from the top all the way thru the farm system.

Giant Fan
I, for one, never got into the LA/SF hatred thing, but I love to beat you guys and I'm looking forward to some competitive series (that we win, LOL).
It's only natural to see the best aspects of your team before the season and I respect that you have watched Schmidt for several years now. I know we are not getting the same pitcher that originally signed with you guys.
It all comes down to "we'll see".
Keep checking in, the banter is fun.

Giants Fan,

Not to continue to rain on your parade, but you don't have Zito or Sexton. That's like arguing for the Dodgers when they get V. Wells. Not that it isn't possible, but it hasn't happened which makes it irrelevant.

The only "Giants" team that's any good are the
NY Giants. Sabean has lost his magic....or maybe it was Coletti who was the brains over there.

Dodger Blue Balls u a funny guy I thought only Dodger Dogs made one throw up. Look at Ritchie A's stats for last year in only around 425 AB's. And he is CLUTCH.

You got it Andy B. Why do you think we always sold out the stick and now pac/bell er At&t er the house that Bonds built(he was stronger a couple of years ago LOL) in good and bad years. I hope Jason goes 20 and 6 as long as the six are vs the Gigantes.

BMurph it's gonna happen--just watch the ticker later this week or I will eat a fetted D/Dog.

Sabean has not lost it although Coletti is a good GM for u. He just has to grind on ownership a lot harder for money and it takes time. It' gonna be a great year in the Wild Wild West.

The giants are awful-- its almost a joke. the team that i REALLY hate now, just bc they are half decent, is the Padres. I can't stand any of them, and am bitter about maddux picking them. The giants are so bad that im almost disliking the Pads more, and that is saying something from a die hard Dodgers fan. Can anyone else believe the audacity of Gagne to spew all that hometown discount garbage to turn down a fatty contract/ a contract worth much more than he actually deserves? It's really making me sick-- GO NED for going after character and skill-- if Penny must go, then so be it but him DLowe and Schmidt would be simply nasty. i would also look to Wolf to have an inspired season... Thanks to Mr. Colletti and the McCourts (much congrats to them) I feel the Dynasty has arrived. If anyone knows Gagne direct him to every single Dodgers blog on the web- please- he might realize the mistake i fear he is about to make. ALthough the real mistake is having that scum Boras as an agent. Im just sick over it... in my heart of hearts i am hoping that Gagne knows he is unhealthy (roids will do that) and is just saving the Dodgers in the long haul... Can't wait for the book... until then, hope he stays but if he wants out, as evidenced by the Princess (i love that), we let him go and cut our losses-- 20 mil for three years of nothing... Thanks Game Over.
GO BLUE
-evan

The Giants are going to suck this year.

And I don't just say that because I've disliked the Giants on some level since One Flap Down Jeff Leonard (though I love the city and the park). They remind me of the adult softball team my dad used to play for.

BK

Yeah, I heard we were going to get the Rocket, Pujols, Andruw Jones, V. Wells, ARod and D. Ortiz to solidify our bench too. And Giants Fan, if your uncle had boobs, he'd be your aunt!

Fish Guy:

"...if your uncle had boobs, he'd be your aunt..."

THAT is seriously FUNNY...

LoLo:

Soooo, ya see what I mean about the Nedster's do...it just looks, well, really really wrong. hehehehe...poor guy, I hope I didn't just out him for wearing a rug...but if it is a rug, it looks like it is on backwards. note to Colletti: if you are going bald, suck it up and just let it happen. We'll still love you as long as you bring in a clean-up stick.

That's the prob. with u Dodger fans in LALA land. You think money Always wins the world series. How'd the Yanks, Red Sox,Mets and all the other HUGE spenders do last year. Who has won the series lately. It is the teams who play like a TEAM, who have Heart, passion for the game. The Tigers almost won last year but were beat by a better TEAM. The Marlins, the White Sox the Angels when they beat my Gigantes, the Twins---need I go on. All these teams played the game like it is supposed to be played and prevailed. Sure the big spenders take it sometimes, but more often it's guys like Bucky Dent, David Ekstein- the grinders who carry their team to victory. Look at the Cubs line-up and payroll this year. How much you wanna bet where they wind up and it ain't because of no curse. The team that gels together a roster of guys who want it and are gonna go take it. Gee, sounds like the Orange and Black. Take the short drive to Vegas and bet on your boys in blue....for the wildcard.

Another pearl of wisdom from the Giant Fan! (LOL!)

"The Giants always sold out the stick?"

Please tell me that you're an intern in the Giants front office who is in charge of advising Brian Sabean on personnel moves.

I remember many games at Candlestick Park when the Giants had 800 (yes, 800) fans there tops. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays can't even say that. If you don't believe me, take a look at some of these SF Giants average game-day attendance figures. If it weren't so sad, it would be comical.

1970: 9,145
1972: 7,997
1974: 6,420
1975: 6,456
1976: 7,739
1977: 8,643
1981: 7,806
1985: 10,107

Len

im really pissed at gagne for not taking the dodgers offer i hope his arm falls off if he doesnt come back to the team that loves him and i really hate boras he is bad for the game, im glad Coletti doesnt need to kiss his butt. I agree that im more of a pod's hater cuz the Giants for the fact that the giants arent very good and i feel sorry for them more than anything else. Im usually positive but i need to rant and rave sometimes too

Len:

You are dead right about the attendence...other then games vs. the Dodgers there was almost nobody ever at the games between '79 and about '85.

I went to college at UOP in Stockton so I have seen far more Dodgers games at Candlestone then Dodgers Stadium. I can vouch for your comment about attendence. It was GREAT...always met the nicest folks there...real Giant's fans not fair weather troll types who seem to try and pee in everyone's cheerio's as they walk by... ::wink::wink::knowwhatimean::

We NEVER bought tickets ahead of time. And we always could buy tix right from the ticket booth at the stadium. And we are talking box seats not bleacher or Uecker seats.

And I remember that game you mention where they had like 800 people...I think it broke the record the A's held...but I seem to remember they counted the peanut vendors and their children at home to reach 800...but, hey would you spend good cash to watch the Joe Petini & Guy Sularz fumble around the infield? me either... ;)

Len, My comment about selling out the Stick was in response to Andy B about the Dodgers/ Giants Rivalry and I meant to add in the sellouts occurred even in bad years when the Dodgers were in town. Thanks for keeping me on my toes--at least I allowed you to do a little research, that's good , eh. It keeps the blood circulating when your blue cap squeezes your brain.
Zito's in town. Watch the ticker.

Giants Fan has obviously not read Tim Browns current piece on Yahoo Sports.
The Giants have been had again.

Hey Grumpy,

When I was going to school in San Luis Obispo between '83 and '88 I used to trek up to the Stick to watch my beloved Dodgers play a three-game series every year.

Friday night games were the worst. Foggy, damp and cold. Remember the Croix de Candlesticks?

Ah, the memories...Me dressed in my full Dodger regalia. Covered in beer, spit, and half-eaten hot dogs from all of the punk a$$ Giant low-lifes masquerading as fans.

Good times. :-)

Len

Yeah, Croix de Candlestick pins...I have a few somewhere around here...

I actually had fun times chappting with the Giants fans back then. They were great and loved talking baseball. I'd just usually wear a Dodger cap but that was it. Friends thought I was nuts at first but then when nothing happened it was all in good fun...lots of teasing and stuff like that too...I still love those danged garlic fries though...

BTW, I am from Lompoc and had several buds who went to Poly. So I spent a fair amount of time in SLO. I even lived there for a year in '86 and am a proud BLACK MUG holder at Spikes. GREAT TIMES...what I dismember of them...

Wow, Grumpy! A black mug? What a lush! ;-)

I was happy just to get a little name plate on the wall for going round the world once!

Len

You know, I see all the people, icluding many of you rant and rave about B. Bonds and steroids. Ya, he most likely took them as unfoutunately did many many players during that and still in a small way current era. Another prime example would most likely be your departed Mr. Gagne. Gee, why was he so great for all that time and then just brokedown all of a sudden. In fact, he brokedown just when they started steroid testing. Gosh, it is just a coincidence? But many of you are crying as he signs elswhere. Just a bit hypocritical, woulnd't you say? Yes, Barry appears to be dirty, but what's the REAL # of players who got juiced, pumped, transfused? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%or more? Bonds is going to break the homerun record this year. Fear not, it is not tainted because he was hitting many of those prodigious shots off pitchers who were juiced, like Eric.

If Bonds was not such an a**hole and loathsome self centered person, most people would not care that he took steroids. It is his attitude and own actions that have made him so hated, not his steroid use.