Clearly Grady Has Been Reading the Blog

despite my conspiracy theory about the Furcal-Pierre final decision....I still feel it's the better combo based on what we out here know about the two. I base it on two things. First Furcal strikes out far too often for leadoff let alone batting in a position where contact matters so much. That leads to the second reason, Pierre is a better contact guy who seems to have a bit better bat control.

To compare Bill Russel was far speedier then Davey Lopes and he also worked the bat better in terms of contact. Lopes was only a better base stealer because he learned how from Wills. Lopes also stuck out too many times to hit 2nd.

We all remember how well that combo worked out long term...I see the same thing here...these two guys have the potential set the table in a scary way for other teams. It would seem on paper that this order will be the best...of course because I think it's the right way to go it's the kiss of death and Pierre is likely to go 0-for-May...and it will be completely my fault. I hereby apologize in advance for cursing the lead-off guys.

I would have put Pierre at the leadoff spot because I think Furcal has more power to drive in runs.

mike

michael:

the only flaw I see in that reasoning is that it's the same old "...sit back and wait for the 3-run HR..." sort of offense. And why use that style for the first two spots in the line-up when the rest of the team is built to manufacture runs?

Maybe you hit on why I really see Furcal-Pierre as being more valuable to the team. It just fits the rest of the team. I have mentioned before that in the post-steroid/hgh era we will begin to see teams valuing the ability top pressure the defense and manufacture runs from the walk, sacrifice and a fly out to produce two runs/game.

Pitchers will also likely rediscover that if they learn to bunt properly it will mean a few more wins for them each year. Even if it only means they get to stay in the game two innings longer. Heck if pitchers can learn to move runners over again it will also put less strain on the pen. It it takes telling the pitcher a few more wins each year means a few million more then do that too...whatever it takes to make the game more interesting again. Nothing is duller then the offense based on the 3-run HR.

So how do ya like THAT segue... ;)

ya know...I was just looking at Furcal & Pierre's stats. And something came to me, how great is it that this season this might just be the biggest concern we fans have?

Really, I am not thinking the team has any glaring weakenss nor is there concern the GM will trade away the talent for. shem, prospects in an effort to cut payroll without any real concern for improving the team on the field anytime soon.

I mean that I really am looking forward to a fun season with players that seem worth rooting for because they seem to care as a team. Who knows if they really do but it seems worth choosing to believe in them.

I am ready to watch the kids go out and have some fun this season!!

now if only bats Martin second and Pierre 8th we are in business

Adrian:

Oh, suuuure you don't expect much from Martin do you? hehehehehe...go ahead, burn out the guy behind the plate. There are not many catchers who can survive an entire season let alone last a season and bat second.

There is a reason catchers historically bat lower in the order. It's the wear and tear of catching every day. Batting somewhere like second will also include lots of sprinting to avoid a double play, take extra bases on the throw, sliding which can wreck a guy over a season even if he is somewhere that is easy to play like 3rd or LF/RF.

No sense buring through a catcher when there is already a better guy for the slot and it's it kinda nice to have a heathy catcher come play-off time.

Grumpy's on fire! One good point after another, especially on how good the present and future looks for us fans.

Everytime I think of Pierre and Furcal at the top of the lineup (any 1-2 order), I think of the days when the Marlins had Pierre and Luis Castillo 1-2. THAT was a 1-2 punch at the top of the lineup that was rather unheralded. Somebody was always on base for that team.

Go play any old copy of Triple Play or MVP Baseball with those guys in Florida uniforms at the top of the lineup... deadly.

One thing that's often overlooked is the importance of having decent hitters at the back end of the lineup. The heart of the lineup only comes to bat 3-4 times a game, but with on base threats and gap power spread all throughout the batting order, there is always pressure on the opposing pitcher and defense. That said, both Furcal and Pierre need to stay at the top of the order, because those guys will have more ABs, and they have the ability to extend innings for the other guys.

The 8-hole is the most underrated spot on NL lineups. When teams try to hide their weakest hitters before the pitcher, it's almost like conceding 2 consecutive outs. The 8th batter should have the ability to score runners before the pitcher ends the inning, and have enough baserunning ability to move over on a sac bunt attempt. Martin did a great job there most of last season, and I think his performance batting 8th was one of the reasons the Dodgers had such a potent offense despite the lack of power. If anything, the weakest hitter should be tucked in the 6th spot, since the #5 guy is usually a basepath clogging power hitter (Gonzo sort of fits that bill) who wouldn't be expected to score from anywhere other than 3rd base anyways.

If Martin improves offensively, I agree that he should bat higher in the lineup, but I wouldn't be upset at all to see him in front of the pitcher all season. In fact, if everyone plays so well that Martin, Betemit, and Ethier are permanently pushed to the back end of the batting order, then I would be one happy fan.

Stinger,

I had Jason Tyner as my starting CF on my Dodgers team in MVP baseball, and he started off the mock 2005 season with 12 consecutive hits, so I don't know how accurate that game really is (lots of fun, though).

I played the dynasty mode from 2004 to 2006 (in-game seasons), and I picked up both Maddux and Lieberthal in free agency well before well before Colletti had a chance to actually bring them to LA. Strangely enough, a lot of the random computer transactions during the course of the fake seasons have an uncanny resemblance to what's going on in real life.

Hey Grumpy
I just want to make sure who you think should bat 1st and 2nd. Furcal/Pierre, Pierre/Furcal. Also, I just hate it when you sugar coat everything. HeHeHeHe. Seriously, keep the comments coming. I think you are right on target, most of the time. HeHeHeHe.

Mak,
Who the heck is Jason Tyner? And what does the Dynasty Mode say about the 2007 Dodgers? Should I order my World Series Tickets NOW? Who should bat 1st Furcal or Pierre? Finally, who will post more message on here, Grump or the rest of the Dodger bloggers?
Thanks

Rob,

"Who the heck is Jason Tyner?"

Exactly. Apparently, in real life, he's this guy: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4410.

And as for the rest of your questions: 120 win season and WS title, yes, Furcal, Grump. And white people love Wayne Brady because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.

hehehehe...oh, just BYTE ME...got all my contracts met and things running smoooothly so, well, I have a lot of free time these days.

So, well, just...well, byte my hairy white, well, you know!! :D

But Furcal, Pierre darn it! for lots of reasons, but it's beisbol and there are curves out there so we never know what a team will do...

BTW, I just downloaded BUMS by Peter Golenbock. It is just one of those MUST HAVE listens. Or even just the printed book. Can't hold those in my hands anymore so love audiobooks. Anyway, if you want to really learn the history of the Brooklyn Dodgers this is something that should be in your library. Heck, it should be in every Dodger fan's library.

Who was the first black manager to win a game in the major leagues? Here is a hint, he retired undefeated as a manager? It's in the book...

What kinda guy was Walter O'Malley? It's in the book...

Anyway sleepy time for me...and dang it START POSTING MORE... :p

MVP Baseball, Fantasy Stats. You guys need real baseball to begin.

You're right on the season mode, I was talking about two player mode. A buddy and I have been playing the EA baseball games for a long time and we've gotten competitive to the point where it's actually realistic. I always used to take the Marlins because of that 1-2 Pierre Furcal punch.

Season modes can be a bit off... the last PS1 MVP game I played six newly drafted teams over a season, and Jason Giambi edged out Gary Sheffield in the HR race 174-172... and Darren Dreifort not only pitched 200+ innings, his ERA was 0.50.

I love this argument!

That Furcal has relatively more punch than Pierre makes him a better candidate for the lead-off spot -- not the second spot.

The value comes not at the start of the game, but in the middle and later innings. If you've got a runner on first and two outs, or a runner on third and one out or less, you've got a more options available to you with Furcal batting #1 than with Pierre.

My $0.02 (after taxes)

Len

I like all this talk about Furcal and Pierre. It's easy to see why Grady said he kept going back and forth. I like Raffy/Pierre as the order but thought I'd throw out some other things to consider.

To a certain degree I agree with the comment above about the fact that they only lead off the game once. After the 1st inning it's just chance when they lead off again.

My only thought is which of the two batters benefits more from seeing more fastballs. I like Pierre/Furcal as the order, I'm just saying it's possible that Raffy could have a surge of power seing more fastballs.

The other downside to Furcal/Pierre is that Pierre is the more prolific base stealer. Will he be throttled back by the presence of Raffy in front of him?

Just more fuel for the fire.

It is nice that this is the topic we have to ponder. We could be like our friends up north and be more concerned with whether or not AARP is providing the proper benefits for our left fielder.

Butch

Butch,

Just the left fielder up north? I believe the entire team is getting AARP group rates.

There are other players on that team? I thought they only had a left fielder. Dang, learn something new everyday.

Butch

Grumpy,

I just reread your comments from right up front of this discussion about waiting on a 3 run HR if we put Raffy 2nd in the order because of his power. Doesn't that only add up to a 2 run HR?

Just checking.

Butch

Butch darling...it's a metafore.

Grump,
Keep up the good work. Always enjoy what you gotta say..... ok, not always, but most of the time.....
Glad things are going your way! All K's met!!!

there you go with new math, we went from a 3 run home run to a metafore run home run! :)

Yahoo! Sports article on the Pierre/Furcal 1-2 decision....
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AvKKxc52A61yjMGWctU_ncI5nYcB?slug=ti-mlb_07_dodgers022507&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

butch:

d'oh...it's was actually a SIMILE not a metaphor. I am forever getting those bassawkards...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile#Simile_vs_Metaphor

Speaking of who should lead off...I read an article on the Dodgers web site which made an excellent point. It brought up that Pierre runs faster then Furcal. That's true, he is faster. It came to mind that with Pierre being faster and batting 2nd it will put even more pressure on the infielders when deciding whether to go after the 2x play or get one at first. Over the season the slightest indecision by the infielders will add up to more 2-on situations when starting games. Which should lead to more then a handful of games where the Dodgers score at least one in the first inning.

There might not be a huge difference in speed but even if Furcal is 1/10th of a second slower to first that is enough to make a difference.

My personally thoughts are that it makes the most sense for Furcal~Pierre at the top. Empirical results might prove the opposite is better.

DAVEY LOPES SHOULD BE THE DODGERS MANAGER. NOTHING AGAINST GRADY, BUT HE ISN'T FIRERY ENOUGH FOR US FANS THAT GREW UP WITH LASORDA. ALL OF THE GUYS THAT PLAYED UNDER LASORDA HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE PRETTY GOOD MANAGERS...BAKER, SCOSCIA, VALENTINE, EVEN PHIL GARNER(THOUGH HE WAS FIRED HE DID TAKE HOUSTON TO THE WORLD SERIES).
LOPES GOT A RAW DEAL IN MILWAUKEE AND HE IS WHAT THE DODGERS NEED. LOPES WAS A HELL OF A BALL PLAYER AND BY THE WAY, I AM OFFENDED THAT FURCAL WEARS HIS NUMBER 15!
GRADY, YOU ARE A COOL GUY,...BUT NOT A DODGER AND ITS TIME TO GO BACK TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF DODGER BASEBALL...AND LOPES IS THE WAY TO GO!
DAVEY LOPES FOR MANAGER!