A quick holiday CF FYI
If you were hoping to give thanks during tonight's dinner for the Dodgers eventually signing Torii Hunter, my advice would be to quickly think of a new player to substitute or drown your sorrow in extra yams, because the dude's now off the market. Although not far from the Ravine, as he'll be residing in Angel country for the next five years and will be more than compensated ($90 mil) for his time in the O.C. If you're shocked (lotta outfielders on that team as we speak), get in line. Hunter may have to use about a million of that cash on tools required to pry his jaw off the ground.
My two cents? I like Hunter as a player and he seems like a great guy to boot. But if this is what it takes to land his services, the Dodgers dodged a major "big splash move" bullet. Yeah, he could help, but that's a pricey contract for a 32-year old (33 during his first Halo season, actually), especially when (in my opinion, at least) the outfield isn't really a primary concern for the Dodgers. There's gonna be a lot of pressure/onus on Hunter to stay healthy and productive. Not to be a Cynical Cyrus, but I could see this contract looking awfully bad come 2010.
-AK
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Man...this really makes me sad. Tori Hunter was the one player I really hoped they would go after. Now, we come to find they didn't even make an offer. Still, 18 million a year for a man in his mid 30's is excessive....I blame other contracts like 45 million for Juan Pierre for this market escalation. I feel like we're training players and agents to sit on their thumbs until the senseless (or is that cents-less) contracts are offered up to them for too many years and far too many dollars. Spending that kind of money on ONE player soaks up your budget...Then you are limited on what else you can get done as far as addressing your needs. At this point, I hope the Dodgers keep what they have in youth and potential. Why give up four players for an over-weight power hitter you might only have available for two years?
Posted by: J_is_dismayed | November 22, 2007 at 08:53 AM
Steady Neddy keeps reiterating that "we're seeing if there is interest on their part in coming here." FYI Ned, If you offer a free agent top dollar, he'll be interested. No offers made for Arod, Lowell or Hunter.
I thought Hunter was good, not great, and like AK, i think he was overpaid.
I just hope Ned isn't being stubborn in signing a centerfielder to save face. It is essentially admitting "that guy I signed last year" was a bust.
Posted by: bt1 | November 22, 2007 at 09:12 AM
I like Hunter but what the Dodgers need is a true clean up guy more than anything else. I honestly don't think he or Rowand would be the answer, might as well hope for Nomar to rebound rather than coughin up 16 mill/year for a guy that won't hit you 30+homeruns.
Posted by: elteca | November 22, 2007 at 09:14 AM
I liked Hunter but don't think that for that price he was the answer. He is a great CF don't get me wrong, but not the one to put in the clean up spot. The same goes for Rowand. The price for the offensive production doesn't make that much sense.
Posted by: elteca | November 22, 2007 at 09:16 AM
Reason #1 to be thankful:
Dodgers did not sign Torii Hunter. Their outfield is already full (as is the Angels outfield; I can't fathom why they are trading away infielders, where they're short, and stockpiling outfielders, where they're loaded), The money is obscene. I was no fan of the Pierre signing, but $18 million for a guy who's never hit .300 is way too much.
The Twins now need a center fielder. I doubt they'll take on Pierre, but if they'll take Delwyn Young or Matt KEmp for Santana, it will be a very happy Thanksgiving indeed.
Posted by: SaMo | November 22, 2007 at 09:27 AM
Yeah, but don't you think it's worth 'Whatever it takes' as some have posted to get Cabrera? Just think when he moves to 1B, what a thrill it will be watching him move to his right, all 350 pounds of him to grab a grounder in the hole..Or as he scores all the way from first on a single, his 400 pounds bowling over the catcher.
Posted by: DODGER 1955 | November 22, 2007 at 09:40 AM
Thank God this bad move was made by someone else.
Do not trade the kids!!!
Miggi is fat and slow. Not worth it.
Posted by: DC76 | November 22, 2007 at 09:51 AM
It was my understanding that the Dodgers had a meeting scheduled with Torii Hunter's agent this weekend. If that's the case, then I imagine that an offer would have been forthcoming at that time. Then along come the Angels with a five year offer at $18 million/yr. Case closed as far as I'm concerned, unless anyone thinks the Dodgers would have been mad enough to match or exceed that offer. AK is right when he says that this deal will look "awfully bad come 2010." Maybe before that.
There are still two free agent centerfielders available. And should the Hunter deal inflate that market beyond reason, then I'm OK with maintaining the status quo. I think that the Dodgers have a lot more power than some people imagine. I expect to see significant power increases from Loney, Kemp, Ethier and Martin (especially Loney and Kemp). Failing to acquire either Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand, I would like to see Kemp move to center, Ethier to right and Young to left. To accomodate Young in left an attempt should be made to trade Pierre. Failing that, I see no reason why left cannot be shared between Young and Pierre. Just like Torre used Melky Cabrera to cut Johnny Damon's playing time in NY, as he gets more familiar with his players, I don't think he would hesitate to cut Pierre's playing time. Joe Torre is not Grady Little.
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 22, 2007 at 10:10 AM
bt1....Why would Ned make an offer to A Rod when he was never going to leave the Yankees? Do you think Colletti gets his info like we do, from reading Ken Rosenthal's column?
But more to the point....All the people that screamed that we must resign Finley because of his homer or wrote their congressman that we must resign Nomar because of his home run are pretty much the same people that are calling for 'Whatever it takes' to get Cabrera or Santana or both while calling Colletti an idiot for giving Pierre a 5 year contract.
There is a lot of money in baseball and yes agents will sit back to get the most for their player, deservedly or not.
I am an agent/manager in the music biz. It's my job to get the most for my client because when I do that my commission is bigger and I make more money! That's why Boras peddled stupid Beltre to Mariners where he is still miserable and in a park where he can't hit homers instead of doing deal to keep in LA where he would be happy and productive. Because Seattle was more money, commission for Boras.
So before fantasizing, ask yourself if McCourt having been burned by Pierre and Schmidt signings will want to give huge extensions to Cabrera and/or Santana after trading 'Whatever it takes"? I don't know, we'll see. But one thing I do know...their agents aren't going to give us a break. Now that Hunter got 90 mil for 5 years, what do you think Boras will ask for Jones? And all of you that salivate at the thought of Andruw Jones in center for the Dodgers think he is worth the money and the years?
Posted by: DODGER 1955 | November 22, 2007 at 10:23 AM
I think Carl Crawford of the D Rays would be the best upgrade in center - move Pierre to left, keep Kemp in right and we'd have the quickest outfield in MLB. He'd cost much less in prospects than Biggy.
Kemp has the speed to cover center, but I saw some embarrasing routes taken and misjudgments on fly balls in RF. Hopefully, our new coaches won't let him catch balls by his ear or play without his shades - they'll sit his a$$. He's only 21 and should mature.
Posted by: bt1 | November 22, 2007 at 10:43 AM
My problem with signing another outfielder to a "fat" contract is that we will lose Kemp or Ethier. It appears that we on the blog are the only ones that would like to see Pierre move on. Not that he is a bad guy or "terrible" player but just like last year, I believe that he is the 4th best outfielder on the team. I would rather see an outfield of Kemp, Young, Ethier, and Repko. No one is going to take on Pierre's salary although I believe the Dodgers would be wise to eat some of his contract and move him for some young pitching prospects.
Let the Angels take T Hunter for 18Mil a year.
Posted by: Lex | November 22, 2007 at 10:58 AM
I keep going back and forth with some of the Dodger players; that's what young and fairly inexperienced kids will do to you.
The way I see it: Cabrera will hit 35-40 HRs -- book it. But ... Kemp will most likely hit 30-35. Is that a big enough jump to warrant the deal (as well as including LaRoche and Kershaw)?
And if given 600 ABs, LaRoche will probably hit 17-20 HRs. So that is 47-55 HRs we're given away for 35-40 HRs. I thought we wanted to add power.
The only way I see it making sense is if Kemp isn't included in the deal. If the Marlins would go for Ethier, LaRoche and Kershaw, it makes a little more sense. But I'd be more inclined to stick with what we have and shift Ethier over to CF and Kemp in RF. Give 3B to LaRoche and see what he can do.
Let's get pitching!!! With Schmidt nearly a lost cause, let's chase hard after Bedard, who won't cost nearly as much as Santana. I bet Kershaw, Delwyn Young and Tony Abreu would get us Bedard.
Yeah, we'd have to suffer with Pierre in LF, but no other team will take on his contract unless we pay 80-90 percent of it. Besides, we could always sit him for a few games and put LaRoche out there and sub in Nomar at 3B.
Posted by: Scott True Blue | November 22, 2007 at 02:19 PM
What the hell are the Dodgers doing? Do they realize this is the offseason and they can actually offer players a contract? It seems Ned Colleti is always behind the eight ball and always being beat to the punch. If this was a boxing match Ned would have been knocked out 20 seconds into the first round. I'll be thankful when Ned joins Chicken Little in the unemployment line.
Hope the Dodgers sign wither Andrew Jones or Rowand and somehow trade for Cabrera without including Kemp.
Posted by: dcerros | November 22, 2007 at 03:28 PM
Everyone here wants to make moves to improve the Dodgers in '08. You have to realize the greatest upgrade we can get is good health. Injuries killed us especially with the pitching. If we can some how keep these guys on the field for most of next season, we are going to have a pretty good team.
Anyone think we wouldn't have made the postseason if that was the case this year?
I would much more enjoy watching the talent already here develop instead of some big overpaid FA come in a possibly lay and egg or hamstring the budget for years to come.
If Ned makes a move I hope it will be in terms that are reasonable and will make sense.
Posted by: Andy B | November 22, 2007 at 05:40 PM
I am glad torii is gone... now we can throw all our efforts into getting Gagne, and solidifying our middle inning collapses.
Posted by: benzojones | November 22, 2007 at 08:33 PM
rdcerros...You are right...The Dodgers obviously don't know they can offer contacts to free agents....Can you give them a phone call and tell them who they should contact?
Posted by: DODGER 1955 | November 22, 2007 at 11:32 PM
those of us who actually watched the dodgers the entire season know that an OF is not what we need. the dodgers lost the race because our pitching gave out on us. we need pitching! our bullpen needs to be bolstered and a 4th solid starter is needed who can actually go 200in.
our offense is fine. by the end of the season our young core was hitting with authority. in fact our most effective lineup was when we had all our young guys out there (delwyn young included.) i really don't see these FAs being that much of an upgrade to what we have. in fact our rookies might actually produce better because that learning curve is still going while these oldies have hit there peak. i say trade pierre, nomar, kent(if he comes back), etc. for pitching.
Posted by: 88 | November 23, 2007 at 12:23 AM
The difference at the Dodgers and Angels team websites is hilarious. While the Angels website is chronicling baseball activity, the Dodgers website is talking about everything BUT baseball. The silence coming out of the organization this far along into Hot Stove is disturbing. I wonder if indeed Ned Colletti is on the proverbial hot seat and is about to be sent packing along with his old manager. There are major question marks up and down this lineup and pitching staff. As Jon Weisman of Dodgerthoughts.com recently remarked "the Dodgers are at a crossroads". There is no question this is true. Do the Dodgers do there very best Bush imitation and "stay the course", or do they make bold moves in order to shake things up and give the organization and its fans a shot in the arm? Can the team win as constituted? The NL West is quickly becoming a very tough division in all of baseball and we are, as constituted, a fourth place team. Injuries were not the significant part of the Dodgers woes last season, certainly not as much as hideous defense and reprehensible hitting with RISP. Lack of chemistry and cohesion, an inability to play team baseball consistently and late season collapses by our pitching were the main reasons. This team has a ton of problems. New management will help to a great extent in a number of team areas. But I don't think they will help with our power numbers, especially if Kent doesn't return. We don't know, It's a gamble either way.
I wouldn't want to be Colletti right now.
Posted by: Dodger Tony | November 23, 2007 at 01:17 AM
Let me start off by saying I'm a major Dodgers fan. This lack of player movement from management is going to kick us in the butt soon. Why? Because the Angels are working something up in their lab. Everyone's laughing at the glut of outfielders the Angels have right now, and giving their gold glove SS to boot. But what does a shortage of infielders, top pitching prospect Nick Adenhart, and an extra outfielder have in common? Miggy Cab.
As much as I love holding on to Kershaw, Loney, Kemp, etc., it just gets me restless that other teams are trying so hard to land the big fish but we do NOTHING. Every year lately it's been like this. Cmon, Ned, let's make our moves!
Posted by: Wasabi | November 23, 2007 at 08:30 AM
Ak i could agree more on the Hunter deal, when i saw the numbers i was happy the dodgers didn't waste the money. They really need a starter if they trade or free( no free ) agent but what the heck are they going to do with Juan P. i mean no matter where he plays arm will be a ?.
Posted by: PK-IN-THE-MESA | November 23, 2007 at 08:52 AM
Two Dodger Prospects Head to Head 2007 stats:
Minors AVG SLG OBP HR player
.........337 . .571 .. .384 17 ....A
...... .329 .. .540 .. .374 .. 04 ..B
Majors AVG SLG OBP HR player
....... .342 ....521 .. .373 2 ..A
....... .382 .. .647 .. .417 10 ..B
Given the disparity in number of at bats between Vegas and LA, how can one say that Matt Kemp is untouchable and Delwyn Young is expendable? The answer is that all the hype is based upon his speed and body type--but I'm not convinced that his potential will pan out.
Who can convince me?
p.s. DY (player A) only had 34 major league at bats with 13 hits and 2 HR in '07.
Posted by: David A | November 23, 2007 at 09:35 AM
David A:
You make a good point about Delwyn v. Kemp. I like both players, and think they're pretty much the same kind of talent: good hitting spedy guys who have no idea how to play the field. They both have excellent athletic ability, which says they'll learn to be good outfielders eventually, however.
That said, I'm willing to trade one (but not both) of these guys to pick up an ace starting pitcher such as Santana, Bedard, or Dan Haren. Because if you lose one, you just plug the other one in to the vacatedspot in center field. OF the two, Kemp is the more ready to take over the stargin job in center field, which is why Young is considered expendable. If Kemp were the one traded, however, I don't think the Dodgers would feel comfortable moving Pierre to left and handing the job to a rookie. They might be tempted to sign Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones, both of which would be mistakes. We already have an Aaron Rowand type in Repko, and I thnk Andruw Jones would strike out twice as often and hit half as many homers in Dodger Stadium.
However, if you could find a way to get rid of Juan Pierre, then I might be in favor of getting another outifelder. But until then, the Dodgers have all the outfielders they need.
Posted by: SaMo | November 23, 2007 at 10:56 AM
I want to get the pulse of all Dodgers fans ...
If we have to give up a few of our stud young players and/or prospects, who would you rather see the Dodgers get: Santana or Cabrera? And show your work.
Personally, I say always go after pitching. I'd rather have Santana be one of the faces of the franchise than Piggy Cabrera. When was the last time Santana's work ethic was questioned? Never.
Posted by: Scott True Blue | November 23, 2007 at 11:44 AM
I was perusing old rumors and wondered why the Dodgers didn't jump at this one a few months ago:
http://cbs2.com/sports/local_story_269110730.html
Posted by: Scott True Blue | November 23, 2007 at 12:05 PM
between santana vs cabrera i'd go santana for sure ... but not at the expense of kemp, loney, martin, kershaw, billz, broxton. like i wrote before, the dodgers lost the race last year cuz ned signed lemons for arms. we need pitching.
kemp and loney is gonna be our ortiz and manny.
martin's our leader.
kershaw and billz is gonna be our pitching core.
broxton's our future closer.
Posted by: 88 | November 23, 2007 at 12:21 PM