And so it begins
The Joe Torre in Blue era. A reason to celebrate, assuming the low down nitty gritty doesn't get to you. And now that it's officially kicked off, get to work, Joesph, because there's lots to be done. So much, in fact, that some don't feel Torre's even the question, much less the answer. The holes in the Dodger lineup, whether you're talking the third base situation or a pitching staff that can't stay healthy or effective, are areas in which Torre- splashy as presence as he may be- can't control. He may fit the Hollywood bill better than Grady Little, but he'll also be given essentially the same tools as Little. Well, not exactly the same tools. The staff surrounding Torre should feature all new faces, including potential "successor" folks like Don Mattingly. Another new-ish face? One of hatred towards the Bronx Bombers, a once fierce rivalry that may find a little more fire behind it these days.
A breakdown of Torre's style, instincts and general personality from various sources, gathered up by Dodger Thoughts.
Subscribe to this Blog | What is RSS?
With health an issue for our pitching staff, what about bringing Leo Mazzoni in as the pitching coach?
Posted by: Butch | November 02, 2007 at 10:13 AM
With overall, you know, performance being an issue with our pitching staff, why bring back Rick Honeycutt?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?
Posted by: Stinger | November 02, 2007 at 02:01 PM
They are keeping Honeycutt? How good a pitching coach is he anyway?
AK/BK
Can you give us an idea how Honeycutt rates as a pitching coach with his peers? Is he known as good, bad, average? Maybe he's considered great and we don't know it, lol.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Andy B | November 02, 2007 at 03:23 PM
Hey BK
Thanks for reading my comment on 710 espn radio. I can't believe I heard it.
Posted by: dcerros | November 02, 2007 at 03:52 PM
Yes, Honeycutt reminds me of Little.
Posted by: Steve M. | November 02, 2007 at 05:25 PM
after signing torre and getting rid of grady, it is hard to find fault with mc court now. i support him 100% i realize that he is committed to winning
we will see about colletti
Posted by: dave m | November 02, 2007 at 07:11 PM
I think some people are maybe expecting Torre to be a miracle cure. He won't win many games by himself but he can put out an intelligent lineup, handle the pitching staff better and mend the rift in the clubhouse. If the team gets lackadaisical he can use Larry Bowa to tear them a new one. I am not thrilled with Honeycutt but maybe that was Grady's influence. A return to health by Jason Schmidt could go a long way toward curing the Dodgers' pitching woes. Sounds like Wells would like to come back but I wouldn't make too big a committment there. Better to resign Wolf at a discount price.
Posted by: uclart47 | November 02, 2007 at 11:07 PM
uclart-
I would agree. It's not that he's a miracle worker, but to the extent that a manager can improve a team, he's an upgrade over Grady. I guarantee next year there will be people on this blog complaining about strategy, etc., but that would happen no matter who is managing. But overall, he's an upgrade. Torre still needs the talent, but so does every mananger.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | November 03, 2007 at 01:48 AM
booooo! can't colletti think out of the box for once? torre is alright but he's not what the dodgers need and he certainly wouldn't have been my choice. we needed a manager who can take a young core to the next level ... like what arizona did. as a coincidence arizona has a couch who would have been perfect in dodger blue ... KIRK GIBSON! for sure he had a hand in getting that youth movement as far as they did in arizona. Gibby would have been awesome as a dodger manager and great for the organization in general. 1. he would police the clubhouse effectively 2. make sure the game is played the right way 3. give the team a tougher attitude 4. and remind some of us (yours truly included) why we became dodger fans one summer in '88. ... curse you colletti!!!
Posted by: seba | November 03, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Seba,
Gibson might have been a good choice. I haven't been one of Coletti's boosters, but I am not prepared to "curse" him for hiring Torre.
Managers are more than in-game strategists. In fact, in-game strategy is often subjective, and ranks well behind team cohesiveness and leadership. Torre brings with him a reputation for commanding enormous respect and credibility. His mere presence is likely to change the current front office culture, and maybe prod them to finally begin acting like a large market franchise (unfortunately, sans a regional network). Translation: you don't pay a manager in excess of $4 million annually, and has been reported, pay top dollar for his coaching staff, unless you're committed to spending like dollars for talent (via free agency, or other means).
I still believe in the Dodger kids. I hope to see major roles played by Kemp, Loney, Young, Abreu, Martin, Billingsley and Broxton. And if they're ready, Elbert, McDonald, Meloan, Hu, etc.
I live in NY, but don't watch many Yankee games; so I'm not prepared to offer any judgments on Torre's managerial style. That's best done by watching games with regularity on a daily basis (as it is for player judgments as well). Thanks to "MLB Extra Innings" and "MLB.TV", I get to do that. For the same reason, I wouldn't anoint Gibson as a savior. Perhaps watching him on a daily basis would change my positive perception (and maybe it wouldn't).
If you think Torre is veteran oriented, and will sacrifice the kids for experience, it's best to withhold judgment at this time (in fact, on that issue, I'm still withholding judgment on Colletti). As has been pointed out by Colletti, and also in the media, Torre played a young Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when he took over the Yankee managerial reins in 1996. Also, on the current Yankees he handed 2B to the young Robinson Cano, and played Melky Cabrera regularly at the expense of veteran (and highly paid) Johnny Damon. He also trusted important roles to Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes. Grady Little probably felt pressure to play veterans like Nomar and Gonzo at the expense of younger players, and likewise, Pierre as well. I suspect that Joe Torre has the confidence and stature to go with what he deems best, experience and pay scale notwithstanding.
In summary, it's too early for judgments. Time to wait and see.
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 04, 2007 at 07:45 AM
Some good comments on this blog. Here are my sentiments:
WE JUST GOT JOE TORRE! OH MY GOD! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Is this a dream? At the end of last season, the only real hope I had was to get rid of Grady Little. I thought that was impossible. But for THIS to happen is an off-the-charts Christmas gift from heaven itself. Granted, my celebration may be short lived once reality prevails. But what if this opens the doors to some extraordinary transformation of the franchise? What if McCourt actually continues to move the payroll up, even without a regional TV network (I mean, don't they get upwards of $40 Mil from Fox annually as well as the massive attendance and merchandising?).
As far as Colletti, I have to think he is on very thin ice as well. I heard on the Joe McDonald show on KLAC that he (Colletti) was virtually out of the loop on these negotiations with Torre and that is was all done by Frank and Jamie. It would not surprise me if he was kaput before spring. I mean, isn't John Shuerholtz out there, and Steve Phillips and the former Cards GM? Could you imagine if we could woo Bean to come here? The possibilities increase exponentially with this man (Torre) at our helm.
Honneycutt and Duncan are probably being retained because someone needs to be familiar with the terrain of the stadium, first of all, and secondly, maybe an entirely new staff would be too jarring to the pitching staff and team. Someone to smooth the transition may be what they are thinking about. I personally don't care for Honneycutt, Duncan was a Crankie but maybe they are also on short leashes. Just as long as we don't have Donnelly at third, please lord.
If this team gets A-Rod, all bets are off. I have nothing to say in a derogatory fashion about a player who has won the MVP three times in five years in the superior AL. With the advent of the Wild Card, the post season is a crap shoot. Bring in A-Rod and the Dodgers get to the playoffs every year, in my mind.
Pitching is still the name of the game and we have a solid staff if Penny can figure out his second half woes. I have no problem with the remainder of the staff but, again, if we can add a frontline ace like Santana then the package is complete.
What about former Crankies Posada, Rivera, Pettite et al? I'm aware that Pettite says he will only pitch in Crankie stadium, but if Posada came here and we had a catching core, it would help the staff and Russ Martin to develop even more. Need I say anything about Rivera.
This is fun folks. I am still on the space shuttle right now.
Dodger Tony
Posted by: Dodger Tony | November 04, 2007 at 10:40 AM
This is a follow-up to my Miguel Cabrera comments (specifically the weight issue) a few posts back ("Not...there...yet"). It's a reiteration of what I've also read elsewhere.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7401470
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 04, 2007 at 10:52 AM
Seba,
I personally think Joe Torre is the perfect coach for the Dodgers. But if you want to go to Arizona to get a new "Couch" for the Dodgers, here is something I found on craigslist.com that I think might work:
http://www.impressionsonline.ca/images/blueCouch.jpg
Posted by: DodgerBlueBalls | November 04, 2007 at 11:41 AM
It will be interesting to see how Torre handles the playing time for our youth. The only way the kids are not going to be kids is if they get playing time and the experience that goes with it. I hope he realizes this is the future for the Dodgers. The sooner we get these guys going the sooner we can grow.
So Gonzo wants to come back now that Torre is here. Sure. For the veteran's minimum and a backup outfielders role.
Welcome aboard...
Posted by: Andy B | November 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Dodger Tony,
Posada is out of the question. There's talk that he may sign a 3 year $40 million deal with the Yankees. If he were to take the free agent route, I seriously doubt if he would entertain an offer from the Dodgers to play second fiddle to Russ Martin. Likewise, the Dodgers would be nuts to even consider paying anyone near that kind of money to be a second string catcher. And if it was even suggested that Martin should be his backup, my answer is a simple, NO WAY.
Petite has an option for $16 million next year, and Rivera is likely to return to the Yankees. Besides, neither Posada nor Saito would accept anything less than the closer's role. Two closers doesn't work. And what happens to Broxton?
I would love to have Santana on the Dodger staff. But at what cost? Sorry, but I'll take my chances with what's in-house (majors and minors) before I give up a treasure trove of top prospects. And if the Dodgers did acquire Santana, keeping him beyond one year would not come cheap. Now, if the Dodgers can sign A-Rod, then I say get it done (signing A-Rod, that is). If marketed properly he could pay for himself, and maybe then some. If A-Rod was signed, then LaRoche would be freed up to be trade bait. But, of course, LaRoche alone wouldn't be near enough to get Santana. There are, of course, other pitchers out there (e.g., Joe Blanton in Oakland comes to mind), and as part of a package, LaRoche might help to land someone worthwhile. But I prefer not to speculate on packages that would be necessary to acquire a pitcher (or any player for that matter). There are simply too many variables to contemplate. Furthermore, I don't have the requisite inside information to speculate intelligently. Like I said, too many variables.
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 04, 2007 at 03:20 PM
Yeah... no thanks, Luis. Dodger scouts just found this 10 year old girl who played a few games of softball last year. She hurt her throwing arm falling out of a treehouse and needs rotator cuff surgery... but we think she's still an upgrade defensively.
Posted by: Stinger | November 04, 2007 at 06:19 PM
thank you brooklyn dodger for your reply and dodgerblueball for the spelling lessonz. listen, i'm not saying torre will do a bad job. like i wrote earlier ... i think he'll be alright. i remember when he was an angel announcer back in the day. nothing about him struck me as 'special'. but i'm sure 12 years later he's somewhat different.
what i wanted to point out was that KIRK GIBSON would have brought something to the table torre could not ... HARD NOSED BASEBALL!!! back in '88 i hated baseball. i thought it was a sport played by the out of shape and unathletic. i was watching the sport section one night on tv that year when it started talking about spring training. i though 'oh my god no! go to basketbal already!' but the news anchor caught my attention when they reported on a new dodger signee who stormed off the playing field cuz of a practicle joke. the new dodger was kirk gibson, he didn't look like a baseball player. he looked more like a football player with a permanent scowl and 5 o'clock shadow. he changed the way the dodgers played ball. they were tougher, more focused. i was hooked. gibby played kamikazee baseball. when he slid into second he SLID HARD! often the second baseman or shortstop would get tossed in the air as Gibby jolted back up from the slide. it was like professional wrestling. in brawls it took 3 or 4 players from the opposing team to take down gibby. he just played so hard and everybody else in that club house followed his lead. and of course they won it all that year. he left such a lasting impression. even now in my mid 30's when ever somthing comes up i ask myself 'WWGD' ...'what would Gibby do?' ANSWER: "SLIDE HARD!!!"
but seriously, if the dodgers aren't gonna hire him as the new manager they should at least give him a spot on the coaching staff as a show of respect to dodger history and as a connection to dodger glory. and who knows, maybe replace torre when he retires.
Posted by: seba | November 04, 2007 at 06:40 PM
I'm sure she has a better attitude.
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 04, 2007 at 07:31 PM
Yeah,
Let's sign A Rod, I would give Boras a blank contract and let him fill in the years and dollar amount...A Rod has taken every team he has played for to multiple World series wins...I'm sure with a Rod we are guaranteed at least 8-10 WS wins!
Posted by: DODGER 1955 | November 04, 2007 at 08:10 PM
Nobody is talking about A-Rod taking the Dodgers on his back to the World Series. But put his bat between Kemp and Loney, and he won't have to do it himself. By the way, the last time the Yankees won the WS was in 2000. A-Rod didn't get to NY until 2004. He's not the only reason the Yankees haven't won since. Personally, I don't buy the nonsense about him choking in the playoffs. Call it whatever you will, but he could just as easily turn it around and get hot in October. The past does not always foretell the future. The Dodgers need power, and he provides it. He also provides protection for the hitters around him. If surrounded by other good players, his presence will resonate throughout the lineup. Also, a high powered offense would preclude the need to overwork the bullpen, keeping them fresh for the postseason.
Also, A-Rod's presence has the potential to create lots of income through increased attendance, advertising revenue and merchandising. In other words, the Dodgers will likely get a return on their investment. It's about time the Dodgers began to act like the large market team they are.
Posted by: Brooklyn Dodger | November 04, 2007 at 09:39 PM
Seba,
Gibby's now the bench coach for the Arizona Diamondbacks and by all accounts doing a fine job there. I'm sure all Dodger fans wish him well in his job. But we really have to let Joe Torre choose his own coaching staff.
Stinger,
Anybody find out if that girl can hit? Seriously. We need a power hitter and if that kid can hit I say we sign her before any of the other teams find out about her.
Posted by: Dodgers '81 | November 04, 2007 at 10:10 PM
I like Gonzo but he just doesn't get it. During the year he suggested his loss of playing time was because the team wanted to feature the young players. In actuality it was because the young players were hitting better than him. Now he says he'd like to come back and play for Torre but that can only happen if he's willing to take a back-up role.
Posted by: uclart47 | November 05, 2007 at 12:20 PM
TRADE RUMOR
I heard this on a national radio show. I saw Dodger Tony mention it as well.
Minnesota sends Johann Santana to Dodgers for Matt Kemp and Dodgers top 2 minor league pitchers.
Twins can't afford to keep him and they want to get something before he walks away next season.
The scenario has Pierre moving to left, Andre Eithier in right and adding a free agent to play center.
Posted by: Ruben | November 05, 2007 at 12:27 PM
ANDRE EITHEIR
Why is it that when they talk about the Dodgers young talent, Andre Eitheir's name is never mentioned?
But when possible trade talks (or rumors), Andre's name comes up often.
In my opinion, other than maybe Russell Martin, Andre is the best prospect on this team. They should pencil him in right field all season and for the next 10-15 if possible.
The kid is going to be a 20 year veteran with great numbers. He is also great with the fans as I have seen firsthand.
Grady should have left him in rightfield all season .....I also like Kemp and would be fine with those two kids in the outfield for the next 10 years but AE never gets mentioned while matt kemp gets a ton of press.
Posted by: Ruben | November 05, 2007 at 12:33 PM