In case you've been living under a rock, Joe Torre is the new Dodger manager

It's not the money it's the number of years that a contract for A Rod would require. No player is worth a 10 year contract as A Rod has proven himself now that he's going to go to a 3rd team since he signed the original 10 year deal.

Another possibility. A-Rod probably not going to happen -- but may go to Mets. What COULD happen would be Ethier/Delwyn/LaRoche or LaRoche/Hu/Delwyn for Cabrera (plus cash) and possibly buy out Dontrelle Willis for good measure. Gonzo may come back into the picture at left. May sound a little crazy, and I don't personally like it (big fan of Ethier) -- but it smacks of something Dodger management would do rather than make any meaningful offer on A-Rod. Also some guy named Scott Rolen filing for free agency -- another "veteran/hasbeen-who-might-still-have-a-great-season-left-in-him" type of player the Dodgers are so fond of. Just musing along.

Gonzo back? We're trying to go forward here!

I agree that one player does not win a championship, I want the Dodgers to steer clear of A ROD.

But, I would much rather spend money to get a player than spend talent to get one! MULTIPLE players to get Cabrera or Santana?? NO, ESPECIALLY not for a pitcher! All we need is one more Darren Dreifort or Kevin Brown to make this organization a perennial disaster!!

LossLeader,

The Dodgers are going to have to dig a little deeper than that to land Cabrera. The Marlins are going to want Eithier or Young, since both Jeremy Hermida and Josh Willingham put up similar numbers to Ethier. What they're going to want is some pitching. They'll ask for Kershaw and Kemp and Colletti will laugh and say no. At some point, they will agree on something along the lines of this: LaRoche, Broxton, McDonald and Hu for Cabrera. This will give the Marlins a ML ready 3B in LaRoche and a ML ready SS in Hu so they can then move Hanley Ramirez to CF. Broxton will give them some depth in their bullpen and become their eventual closer and McDonald will very likely be ML ready for 2009.

That's a huge haul for the Marlins, but it gives the Dodgers one of the ML's top 5 hitters, who's only 24. Cabrera's weight problem can be dealt with and maybe Ron Cey can be brought in to help him with his defense at 3B. The Dodgers have replacements in their farm system for all these players so it really won't hurt the team next year. In fact, after signing Cabrera, Ned Colletti should then go out and sign either Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones to play CF. In that case, 3B and CF would yield something along the lines of 55-60 HR next year or slightly less than 1/2 what the entire Dodger team hit this season.

Steve M,
Agree about giving up the farm for Santana. I love the guy but if it's meant to be, wait to next year and try to get him in the FA market if you can. The Dodgers have been stung w/ too many pitchers blowing out to risk the whole near future on a pitcher... even if he is the best left handed pitcher in the majors today.

I don't see the Dodgers getting Arod. You can tell Boras and Arod are sweating it a little now. I think the asking price is too high and definitely too LONG. 10 years @ 350 million?! Maybe 4 years at $150 million but one would be a fool to give him more than 5 years at those numbers. The Tigers are rumored to be thinking about it and I think Boras and Arod want the Red Sox to get involved. Boras likes getting his players into Boston. Hopefully Boston will be smart enough to realize they can win w/o Boras clients. Angels are also rumored to bid on Arod. I hope the Angels don't do it either and Arte sticks to his beliefs that no player is worth over $25 million/yr. The bad side to that is the Angels might be forced to sign Barry Bonds?! It makes a lot of sense for them. Need power bat behind Vlad and can DH. Bonds might make sense for the Dodgers too, strictly baseball but I doubt that McCourt would want to jeopardized antagonizing the fans. But Barry can still hit and the Dodgers need rent a power for a year and Bonds fits the bill. Plus Bonds would neutralize Jeff Kent for all you Kent haters... what do you think of him now? haha.

Rob -

If the Dodgers signed Barry Bonds, I'd RETIRE. That would be a terrible move for the organization and a step BACKWARD. Adding a player with the HIGHEST suspicion & linkage to steriod use would deflate all the air in that CREDIBILITY balloon the Dodgers filled by signing Joe Torre. The Dodgers NEED NOT associate themselves with the likes of Barry Lamar Bonds.

Hey Rob
You are still my buddy, but I can't see Bonds. He is too old even if he can still hit a little. I think the distraction would be terrible for the whole team, and the fans. Surely the Dodgers can find a big bat somewhere else.

Package

I was following the exchanges on Jeff Kent and Abreu from an earlier thread between SFDodgergirl, Dougie and BrooklynDodger, and while this is not a direct response on that issue as such, it really got me thinking about something we don't discuss much here.

First off, I think what is clear to me reading as many of these posts as I can these last few months is that the people here all really care about the Dodgers, are passionate about them and of course want them to win, and as soon as possible.

And it's also clear that we sometimes disagree about *how* that can and should be achieved. That's why this blog exists -- it's why people come and read it for sure. If we all agreed on everything we could hibernate all winter and just read the McCourt-PR -machine produced ladodgers.com instead.

The upshot is that because we are human, people might sometimes go hard on another poster with whom they diagree etc. If you post here and you are lucky enough that people care, then you might get a response. Maybe it will be praise, maybe a biting or sarcastic response accusing you of missing the point, or 'not being serious' and the like. Maybe it will ignore the topic in question and instead complain about Grady Little's most recent ridiculous lineup.

It's all part of what we come for right? But I think we have to try and remember we're talking to fellow fans. And we have to remember that people don't usually mean to attack anyone personally. This is just what real fans do, and biting and snipping are just part of human nature.

The thing that really got me thinking though, was the way we all bring our own little biases to our interpretations of the numbers and can all be guilty of using equivocal information to make widely different points.

Kent is a controversy figure for sure by now, and I was struck just by how the same fact (occasional sliding into 1st head first) could be used so differently by different commenters. Some focused on the outcome (slower and injury risk) others on the signal it shows about 'how he plays the game' (gutsy etc). Both are valid pieces of information in my view. but what is interesting is that I would submit that the very same people who might at one time focus on 'outcomes' to critique a player at one time, might do the opposite if it's a player they like in a similar situation. How many times did Martin get himselft hrown out at 3rd with an ill advised steal attempt? But some of us probably kind of loved him for it -- well he plays hard, you know, that lovable rogue.

I guess the point is that we have numbers to look at, and we use them as evidence in our passionate debates over how the Dodgers can maybe win, but none of us are immune to the biases that we bring to the table, and we sometimes look those same numbers and see widely different things.

But if the numbers only said one thing, we'd all have nothing to talk about.

Dodgers '81

Sounds good to me!

I can't take all this nonsense.....you take Kemp, Laroche, Hu, and one of your top pitching prospects like McDonald, throw in some cash and throw in something else in the mix to pry away Cabrera and Willis from the Marlins, kind of sounds like what the Sox did to get Beckett and Lowell from the Marlins and look where they're at, Cabrera will make 12+ mil this year, Willis 6+ mil =19 mil, then you go after a bat to roam center field after moving Pierre to left field, such as Rowand or Hunter, you give 11-14 mil a year with a 3yr deal with a option for a 4th depending on games played, now you just spent 30-34 mil to plug all your holes, then you can let Arod go play in MARS and he can take Boras with him where they will live happily ever after, with Torre running the show don't you think players will salivate at the opportunity to come and make LA their home, you pick up some veteran bullpen help which Torre loves to use and we're looking good...anybody, does this make any sense cuz it makes sense to me

Micheal.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Sorry I went on so long, but I was just trying to make a point that things might occasionally go beyond the:

"Let's get A-Rod (some numbers)"
"Let's not (some other numbers)"

... kind of debate I read here time and time again. I was talking about the parts of these debates that reflect biases that won't be shaken. Same small group of people making the same arguments using the same numbers to make different points. I was just commenting on that.

But then maybe this is just a club for that same small group of people and no one else is welcome. That's fine too.

I return you to your programming already in progress:

"Jeff Kent sucks!"
"No he doesn't!"

"Grady was in the bottom 1% of managers!"
"No he wasn't! He was in the middle!"
"No way dude, he was definitely in the bottom 1%!"

Enjoy yourselves.