Time for Plan B...

Ding Dong the witch is dead... but how is it Bore-ass gets 15 mil for sitting in the other room?

oops, sorry, I just realized I may have channeled my inner Phil Jackson

There are those in the national media that say the Dodgers need to go after Hunter and move Pierre to left, benching Ethier unless he or Kemp is traded. This makes no sense to me. How much more are you going to get out of Hunter than Ethier? Last year he hit 13 more homeruns and about 40 more RBI with the same BA roughly. Which is better yes. But will he do that in Dodger Stadium? Can his 33 year old knees hold up after playing on an artificial turf in Minn.? Will Andre improve this year? I say you get Hunter only if you plan on benching Pierre. Somebody mentioned benching Pierre because of sunk costs. That makes sense at least. Hunter compares much more favorably to Pierre than he does to Ethier in my book.

A-Rod, in acting as his own agent, should just have any team interested in him make a sealed bid and be done with it.

Yes, A-Rod might be staying in New York because the Mccourts obviously don't realize what kind of baseball market A-Rod can bring with him. I read today in a CNN sports illustrated column by John Donovan call our Dodgers “a dysfunctional, underachieving" team. What a low blow to our fans and our city of Los Angeles. Maybe the Los Angeles Angeles are right; they are LA's new team. And yes, that statement is directed at the Mccourts
RHF

If the dodgers sign Rowand who i think is overrated but an upgrade in a lot ways for us in center field. But signing Rowand means that kemp will be on his way out for a package for "piggy" i mean miggy cabrera. So hopefully the dodgers make a serious bid at cabrera bc he could be the face of the franchise for years to come and HE IS ONLY 24!!!.

I just finished reading the Olney blurb about the Dodgers signing Rowand and then trading for Cabrera. By looking at his predicted Dodger lineup for next year if the moves took place, I'm trying to figure out who we moved to Florida. I'm guessing LaRoche, Ethier, & Kershaw (Kemp, Loney, & Martin being in the Dodgers lineup). Question is, would that be enough to get Cabrera? We certainly cannot trade Billingsley under any circumstances. What if, in addition to the 3 players above, Delwyn Young was included--3 young everday players and a top pitching prospect. Would Florida bite? Then, you have to ask yourself, "If we made that move, who would we have left to trade for pitching?" I think our only option after all that would be to resign Wolf and another mediocre free agent and hope that Schmidt comes back and Loaiza, Wolf, and ? could round out the rotation and provide depth. Possible, but risky. (Rowand's numbers look good and he is only 30, but I think Jason Repko--and I know assuming he can stay healthy--is the same type player.)

All of these national sports outlet columnists need to stop writing about teams west of the Mississippi as though they know what they're talking about.

Buster Olney's Rowand idea only makes sense if the Dodgers can move Pierre. Character guy or not, numbers and production win championships, and to pay millions of dollars to a guy like Rowand and trade away Ethier makes very little business or baseball sense.

In addition, Olney prescribes a trade for Cabrera, but his hypothetical lineup for next season magically includes Kemp and Loney. This means that Olney believes 1. The Dodgers will trade Billingsley (and likely Kershaw) 2. LaRoche and Ethier are enough in position players for Florida to move Cabrera. Good luck with all that.

I personally feel that the entire A-Rod thing might be an elaborate ploy by Boras to bring the Yankees back into the bidding, which will only help to drive up the market for A-Rod, which didn't look incredibly lively heading out of the GM meetings. But if the Dodgers can't sign Rodriguez, their best option would be to stand pat and commit to LaRoche next season, and relegate Nomar to an overpaid corner infield sub and PH.

Well get rid of the Kent. He is the biggest problem with the Dodgers chemistry. Sure he comes through in the clutch a few times a year, but the guy has had so many altercations with teammates all the time. And I am not wanting to call the guy racist but he seems to always get under the skin of black teammates (Bonds, Milton Bradley, and now Kemp and Loney). Is this cioncidence..or is something else going on?

Dodgerskip and Makoto hit it right on the head in regards to Olney's article. I thought the same thing this morning... How will the Dodgers have that lineup if they get Cabrera? The answer is - they won't!

Maybe "Plan B" for the Dodgers is to sign one free agent bat (Rowand would be my pick), and upgrade the PITCHING via trades... that should have been their "Plan A" all along I think...

I don't see how Kemp doesn't head to FLA in a Cabrera deal, but honestly if that's all it would take to get Cabrera, I'd do it. The problem is it'll take pitching, too. I wouldn't trade Bills, and I'd be very reluctant to trade Kershaw... and I'd never trade both. And as I've written before, I think Hunter is on the wrong end of things and wouldn't be a big enough upgrade over the talent they have (currently residing in left and right) to pay 15 mil until he's 37 years old.

I like Rowand more, but as always, the devil is in the details.

BK

Look at the numbers for Hunter and Rowand, and it's easy to see why Rowand is the better choice. But if the Dodgers aren't going to move an outfielder, there's no point in getting either one of these guys. And trading away good talent to get Piggy Cabrera doesn't seem worth it. He's an outfielder waiting to happen, not a good third baseman.

As I've said before, everything hinges on the Dodgers being able to get a top line starter. Johan Santana, Dan Haren, or somebody of that caliber. And for that, I'd be willing to trade away Kemp, Ethier, Kershaw, LaRoche,Abreu, Hu, etc. etc. etc. PRetty much the only untouchables would be Russell Martin, Loney, Billingsley, and Broxton. All the other guys are replaceable parts, much as I love Ethier.

But if you can't pry one of those pitchers loose, all the other moves don't make any sense. I look for the Dodgers to stand pat for the most part, and make a big move in midseason if they're close. The price for Santana or Haren might be higher then, which is why I prefer to do it now.

Yes it was just a ploy by A Rod to get McCourt to give him 350 million...What? A Rod signed with the Yankees?

I repeat!!!! A Rod WAS NEVER GOING TO LEAVE THE YANKEES!!!!

Sorry, but New York is more exiting than North Mexico City!

And oh yes! The Dodgers are terrible. Only 2 playoff appearances in the last 4 years and both first round eliminations not like the Yankees what with A Rod's clutch hitting and Joe Torre's astute managing who have just won their 3rd straight worlsd series1

BK,

I concur big time regarding Torii. Its been pointed out before here on Blue Notes that Hunter has been playing half his games so far in his MLB career on the unforgiving 'turf of Hubert Humphrey's Metrodome. Torii is just a major injury liability waiting to happen.

I am not as appreciative as you are, though, of Aaron Rowand. When evaluating his stats in 2007, it has to be considered that he played half his games in Philly's Bandbox of a field. Aaron's aggresive D is certainly to be admired, however I will second the sentiments of whomever said on here that the Dodgers already have a similar style of played in Jason Repko.

Honestly, I can't see any impact players that would make sense for the Dodgers in the Free Agent market - and sadly, we're only 2 days into the signing period. Also, I am a big time opponent of entering into any trades for Piggy Cabrera. Would it make more sense to try and re-acquire Beltre from the Mariners? And as long as we're strolling down memory lane, would it be so bad to send out some feelers and bring back Gagne? Offer up to Eric a low-base salary, heavy insentive laden contract? Maybe back at the Ravene, he would show that his performance in Texas was not a mirage, and that he just couldn't take the pressure and little nuances of playing in the land of Chowderheads. Plus, I would really enjoy an all Montreal-battery of Gagne & Martin! Maybe dub it "The Quebecois Bloc?" For every scoreless appearance by Gagne, there could be a promotion of a free basket of Poutine for everyone in attendance. If Gagne & Martin played together, maybe the McCourts could convince Celine Dion to make her first post-Las Vegas appearance at Dodger Stadium, and she could sing a rendition of "Touch the Sky" when Russell comes up to bat and "Welcome to the Jungle" when Gagne comes running out of the 'pen.

http://user234941.websitewizard.com/images/Titanic-2004.jpg

The marketing possibilities are endless here, and if successful, maybe the McCourts would only rise the price of Stadium parking to just $63 dollars next season...

Dodgers '55,

I'll take your theory one step further by saying that all this publicity of ARod going around Scott Boras and asking the Yankees to return is actually a plot crafted up BY Boras to get ARod back into the people of NY's good graces, and put an end to all the Rodriguez bashing that has been happening for the last 18 days.

Seriously, would ANY of you put that past ARod and Boras not to do?

When it comes to making a trade, I actually think the Dodgers need to focus more on pitching. The offense will improve when you give 600 ABs to Loney, LaRoche and Ethier.

1. Sign Rowand and shift Pierre to LF and give Ethier RF on a permanent basis. Let's see what he can do in a full-time role.

2. Trade Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw, Jonathan Meloan and Scott Elbert OR Delwyn Young to Twins for Johan Santana.

Lineup:
1. Furcal, ss
2. Martin, c
3. Loney, 1b
4. Kent, 2b
5. Rowand, cf
6. Ethier, rf
7. LaRoche, 3b
8. Pierre, lf

Rotation (yikes!):
1. Santana
2. Penny
3. Lowe
4. Billingsley
5. Schmidt

I must say you guys have A MOST EXCELLENT BLOG Kamenetzky brothers! ;o)

A Rod was born not too far from Yankee Stadium... He's Dominican in a city with a large Dominican population... There is the Yankees' mystique and the House That Ruth Built is being torn down and a new Yankee Stadium is being built where A Rod will now break Bonds' record. Barry hopefully will be allowed to see it in the recreation room of the prison he is living in.

New York is at the moment the center of the Universe...Why would A Rod go to any other place, unless he was offered 400 million or something....But even then I don't think he would have left the Yankees.. His wife didn't want him to leave...Something would have been worked out. And no, Boras overplayed his hand. He thought George Steinbrenner was still running the club...George would have given him the 350 but the sons said no and now it's over.

As for Cabrera, he is not an outfielder waiting to happen...He's a DH waiting to happen in a few years. As others have posted correctly, A full season from Loney and Kemp will more than make up for what Cabrera will give a club in power and ribbies. But we'll have to wait and see. We fans have no say so.

I just hope that with A-Rod lost we don't panic and give up too much for Cabrera. Hunter or Rowand would be fine for CF, the latter more reasonably priced just don't go after A. Jones. From what I'm hearing the White Sox have the inside track for Hunter.
A-Rod in NY, Bonds in jail and all is right with the world,

now that this a rod distraction is out of the way..... the dodgers can focus on what they really need......pitching

i say bring in santana.....whatever it takes just dont give up kershaw, brox or bills
anyone else is fair game

Bluebleeder-

Not one of my most articulate moments (haha).

BK

DBB

I too have wondered about bringing Beltre back. "When last we left our hero..." to quote an old movie line, he was putting up A-Rod numbers- in the National League, and in the pitcher's park of Chavez Ravine. Granted, he has come no where close in Seattle, but his defense, age, history with the Dodgers, and standard yearly numbers would make him very palatable--and who knows maybe we catch lightening in a bottle and get the Beltre of '04. I say that because I assume we could get him for CONSIDERABLY less than Cabrera. So, what would it take? I'm thinking LaRoache for sure as a replacement then some combination of Meloan, Either, Hendrickson, Stultz or Houlton. Beltre has been a disappointment for Seattle so I think they may be receptive to the right deal. With A-Rod to the Yanks and Mike Lowell possibly not going back to Boston, the Red Sox and Angels will probably be the front runners for Cabrera because we won't (at least I hope) give up Bills and Kershaw for him. So Beltre might be our best option out there--and would leave us with all our young studs to keep or move for a Santana type pitcher--now that could secure our ability to give Torre the tools to get us a championship.

What say you BK? Hear any rumers along that (Beltre back) line??
(If not--start one.)

Make that "Rumors" BK. (What kind of goober says "Rumer").

Let's move on to the pitching discussion. Hasn't LaRoche been adequately inspired by all this chatter?

dodgerskip:

bring back beltre? and give up pitching to get him?
hahhaha

beltre numbers dropped off a cliff once he stopped using the cream and the clear

the dodgers would be better off keeping la roche and seeing what he can do
......use the trade bait for pitching

Beltre? Are you kidding? The guy had one good year, his 2004 walk year, when he hit .334. He's never hit .280 again, and hit .290 only one other time in his career. You don't have to be Charlie Chan to think he was doing something that year to land a big contract. Can you say "I'm not here to talk about the past?"

Here are his career AVG/OBS/SLG numbers, and those of a very similar, albeit younger third baseman the Dodgers also had, Wilson Betemit:
Beltre .271 .327 .459
Betemit .260 .332 .439

We rightfully ran Vegemit out of town for sucking, and if Beltre were still here, we'd be doing the same thing.

dave m

notice the pitching I'm referring to is not exactly going to be confused for cy young.

I'm basically going on the assumption that Colletti WILL make some move. He's been trying to find power for 2 years now. Third base being one of his only areas to upgrade. I, like BK, think LaRoach's injury problems could be troublesome and keep cropping up during his career. If he is damaged goods, get something for him now while he has some value and is flashing his offensive potential in winter ball. Mike Marshall was a stud with the stick--AAA Triple Crown winner, but his chronic back problems kept popping up year after year until he was a shell of his former self. So, if Ned is (assumption) going to go after a third baseman with some power who do you get now that A-Rod is gone? Mike Lowell? Maybe, but he is what, 37 and wants a 4 year contract. He is also very inconsistent. He is only 2 years removed from hitting like .220 or something like that. So, do we get Cabrera? He'd be great, but most of us agree he would cost us more in players than we could replace. Scott Rolen?? Pedro Feliz?? When you start thinking about what's out there, Beltre starts to look like a reasonable risk. His average year is .280 23 90--he'd have been our MVP the last 2 seasons with those numbers. If someone has a better idea let me know. (Again, going on the assumption that Colletti WILL make a move for a third baseman--what should he do based on what's out there?)

I agree with Dodgerskip that inquiries should be made regarding Beltre. He certainly would come a lot cheaper than Cabrera. As was noted in another post, Dodgerskip was not suggesting that the Dodgers include our best young pitchers. I saw the names Meloan, Hendricksen, Stultz and Houlton. The point I believe he was making, is that Beltre would come at a palatable price, and would clearly represent a significant upgrade at 3B. And I agree, as long as the package is reasonable.

He are Beltre's stats:

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=sea&playerID=134181

Does anyone think that the Dodgers couldn't use a player with Beltre's 2007 numbers. .276, 41 doubles, 2 triples, 26 HR's and 99 RBI are far better than anything the Dodgers got out of 3B in 2007. Yes, Beltre doesn't walk enough and strikes out too often. He even had 14 SB while being thrown out only twice. And let's not forget his glove. He won the gold glove at 3B in 2007, and any of us who remember his play with the Dodgers know that wasn't any fluke.

Adding Beltre, and projecting significant power increases from Loney, Kemp and others, the Dodgers would have considerably more power in 2008. Adding one of the free agent centerfielders would also be an upgrade. But even w/o the latter, I would not mind seeing an outfield that included Kemp, Ethier/Young (assuming one of these guys would be included in a Beltre deal) and Pierre. If Pierre could be unloaded and replaced by one of the free agent centerfielders, all the better. And if Pierre ended up in left field (with Young on the bench), well, that's not the end of the world.

Finally, and this is a reach, it would be nice of Paul LoDuca (currently a free agent) was agreeable to returning as Russell Martin's backup. I doubt if he would be willing to relegate himself to a backup role, and that the Dodgers would be willing to pay him enough to make such a deal possible. Acquiring the 36 year old (in 2008) LoDuca would enable the Dodgers to do what they should have done last year, which is, give Russell Martin a day off each week. But I'm only dreaming.

Frightening article on rumor page of Yahoo Baseball. Dodgers offering Bills, Kemp, Loney and La roche for Cabrera. This cannot be true? Help!!!
David

David-

I'd be shocked if they gave up that much.

BK

David
If that rumor is true....Florida should make it before 50,000 Dodgers fans show up at Colletti's office with a noose. It can't be true. It just has to be what Florida may be asking for which is all the more reason to believe that we will not be able to get Cabrera. If we made that deal, we have a third baseman/cleanup hitter--yeah. Now all we would have to do is find a stud firstbaseman, a #2/3 starter who could be a #1 before the year is out, and a power hitting outfielder. Trouble is, we won't be able to trade for any of these replacements because we'll have no one left to trade. What, Martin, Kershaw, Ethier for Santana after that? I'd much rather let LaRoach and Nomar start the year at third than move those guys for Cabrera.
Ahhh--pull up a chair everyone and gather round the 'ol hot stove, it's blasting out some serious heat right now.

While we're on bizarre moves, what's with Torre saying LA would love to have Mo Rivera? Has Torre not watched tape or looked at stat sheets showing him that LA has a closer that is currently superior to Rivera? Sammy could be argued to be the best closer in the game the last 2 years. Sure Rivera has had a hall of fame career, but I wouldn't want him closing over Saito at this point. And for that matter, I wouldn't want him setting up Sammy over Broxton either. I seriously doubt that Rivera would come to LA to be a 7th inning reliever. And we have other pressing needs to spend McCourt's money on than an aging star who is not as good as what we have--we've done too much of that the last 2 years--re Luiz Gonzales, Nomar, Hillenbrand, Bill Mueller etc, etc.

I read the samething on the Yahoo page and God, I sure hope it doesnt happen. Kemp, Loney Bills and LaRoche is just insane!

"The likes of . . . " could just be doublespeak in the Yahoo article meaning one or more of these players in a package. However, if all are in the package, it would be catastrophic. No way should the Dodgers give up Loney or Bills, period, and certainly not both plus Kemp. Shades of LoDuca and Dave Roberts crying in the clubhouse after they were traded . . . . Let's hope it's not true.

I hear that Erik Bedard from the Orioles is available. What a rotation that would give us.... best in baseball in my opinion...

The Yahoo! rumor sounds a lot like the deal that Coletti reportedly was willing to make last summer at the July 31 trading deadline, and which was supposedly rejected by the Marlins. However, much has changed since July. Billingsley established himself in the rotation, Loney produced a solid .331 season (including 9 HR's in September), and Kemp after returning from injury went on to hit an impressive .342. Perhaps Coletti would have pulled the trigger on such a deal in July, but I would hope that the production of these players in the second half would have convinced him that they are are far too valuable to exchange for any single player (even a trimmed down Miguel Cabrera).

As I noted in my previous post (above), Adrian Beltre is a viable (and cheaper) alternative. The Mariners have likely made him available in an attempt to get out of the last two years of his contract (probably about $12 per year).

I have not been a Colletti booster, but I can understand those willing to take a wait and see position. But if the Dodgers were to pull off this move as rumored, then I would announce my candidacy for president of the "Coletti's Gotta Go Club".

From the comments Colletti made to the media today (after all the coach speak), it seemed to me like that sort of deal wouldn't happen. He used a lot of the same language talking about how teams were asking too much in terms of their "prospects," many of whom are already at the Major League level.

My impression is that they wouldn't pull the trigger on that rumored deal. On another note, Colletti did say they thought they had a deal in place for someone, but it fell through. Obviously, he didn't say for what player/s, but clearly the wheels are spinning. It did sound like they would trade some youth, but I can't see them giving away the farm for one player.

We'll get some quotes from today's call up ASAP.

BK

chemistry in baseball is so over-rated. while it's a "team sport," it's unlike basketball or football where chemistry often matters (right, Kobe?). one player bats, one player pitches, one player fields (while a teammate may have to catch another's throw, if there's an error, it's a player error, even if it costs the team). there have been lots of teams with players who didn't like each other yet still performed very well. thus, while Kent may or may not be a "team player", fans and coaches still feel confident when he comes to the plate. that's telling. when coaches and fans no longer feel such confidence, then it's time for him to go. with Pierre, no one ever feels confident with him at the plate or in the field (i'm not sure even he feels confident). time to go. yes, the Dodgers needed a center fielder at the time they signed him, and there were limited choices - but has his signing paid dividends? i don't think so. Rowand is a very good hitter, and an even better glove. so, if we can get him at a good price, then great! but if you're going to spend big ass money for someone Colletti, for the fans' sake, it better be on a big ass talent! though i'm very glad we were never in the running for A-Rod; while the market may say he's worth big ass money (at least in NY), team trophy cases in Seattle, Texas and NY say otherwise.

Can't the Dodgers use Timberrrr as an enticement for a trade? Aren't teams knocking down the door for an imposing-looking lefty? C'mon Ned. Don't be afraid to let him go.

Please don't sign Rowand to pre meditate a trade for Cabrera. Please don't squander the farm for Miggy. He's legit and is just what we need, but he certainly doesn't guarantee success.

Was the club house melt down not directly caused by the teams lack of definiton? By its unstable line-up? The 2008 squad has answered many of the questions we faced last year.

Don't sign a mediocre bat because he's a good influence. That's ridiculous.

The blame for any and all meltdowns should be placed on management.

If we can't sign a legitimate middle-of-the-order-bat then we should concentrate on aquiring the likes of Bedard or Kazmir.

Why don't the Dodgers move back to Brooklyn? Then they would have a real shot at ARod, as well as many other good players who don't want to be in Hollywood. The Angels are the real L.A. team.

Why isn't anyone talking about Andruw Jones coming to the Dodgers. Even in his worst year ever, he hit more home runs than any Dodger did,and still drove in 94 runs. He is the answer for the Dodgers in center field. Tell Kent to stay at home. I have a statue the Dodgers can put out at second that can prevent more runs than he did last year. Nice team player he is. Should have moved out of second years ago, but it is all about Kent. If indeed we are to trade for Cabrera, you have to be smart and not give away everything that made the Dodgers a team that is almost there. I still think you leave Cabrera there, get a second baseman and Jones and watch the kids win their division. Go Dodgers