Andruw, and now what?

If the Blue can get Santana for "Kemp and...", I say do it ASAP. The same applies for Bedard, or Haren. If healthy (that old catch phrase) such a signature acquisition could very well put the Dodgers into the World Series in a very unsure NL. The staff as constituted is competitive and a true Numero Uno ace could be the bump they need to re-take the division, win their playoff rounds and proceed to the Fall (or should I now say winter-thanks FOX) Classic.

As far as Pierre being the starting left fielder, as I have said innumerable times, I have no problem with that whatsoever and feel that Torre will quickly and soundly place him the spot he always should have been in when he came here-leading off. I agree that Ethier will not bring us the pitcher we need, but feel that he is more than competent as a replacement in right field and should have a very consistent year. In fact he may our second most consistent hitter behind Jeff Kent. With Pierre leading off, I say you might even want to give Ethier a shot at being our number #2 hitter as you wouldn't want to waste Martin's power numbers hitting up so high in the order, even though he does have #2 stuff. Pierre is not a #2 and the Dodgers must be aware that this is a CRITICAL slot that needs to be filled. I would fill out the rest of the order as follows:

Pierre-leadoff
Ethier/Furcal
Kent
Jones
Loney
Martin
Laroche
Furcal/Ethier

Rotation:
Santana
Penny
Lowe
Billingsley
Loaiza/Schmidt/

I think that a table setting number #8 hitter allows for additional runs at the bottom of the order. Your power numbers lost by Kemps projections would be aptly filled by Ethier, who is more predictable at the present time. The team would not suffer adversely as a result of losing Kemp's power numbers, and could actually score more runs. We still really have little idea of what Laroche is capable of which may be quite high. I don't really know what I'm saying, its just a thought. What I mean to say is if you can get Santana or the others for Kemp and a few boys (Broxton, Young) do it.

BK:

You're right on the money. I'd deal Kemp only for Santana or Haren; for Bedard but only straight up (no Broxton). I doubt you can get much in return for Ethier, so why not leave him be the everyday rightfielder?

Pierre's not a bad player, but he's the least of the four outfielders, and the one who should sit. He brings speed, but that's it. The Dodgers already have a speedy leadoff hitter who doesn't actually get on base.

Speed is overrated. Pete Rose and Wade Boggs were excellent leadoff hitters because they got on base all the time. Neither had great speed, however. Pierre is the opposite: a fast guy who makes out 2 out of 3 times.

I'd be happy to see the Dodgers go into 2008 as currently constituted, with Pierre being the fourth outfielder. I'd be even happier if he could be unloaded for Crede, Blalock, or some other upgrade at third base, though I'm not sure any of those guys is the answer. Midseason will be soon enough to know whether LaRoche belongs in the same Logan White Hall of fame as Martin, Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, Broxton, et al.

Hey BK

I know the Dodgers need pitching, but what are the chances of them trading for Troy Glaus? I know he would be cheaper than Cabrera specially with the HGH problem hanging over his head. Or how about Scott Rolen right after LaRussa just finish ripping him on the media.

Kemp for Bedard doesn't make sense to me even in a straight up trade, but then I have yet to see Bedard pitch so I don't know how good his stuff is. Not that I'm a specialist or a scout but Kemp/Broxton and somebody else for Santana would be something worth looking at. Unless the Twins want Loney as well then no way.

Since when did Pierre develop so much love around here?

Dodger Tony-

It really does depend who the "and" is. With Santana, if I'm Minnesota, I'm holding out for the really good stuff. Delwyn Young won't do the trick. If they already turned down Kemp and Brox for Bedard, I wonder what else they want. Similar to the Cabrera deal, they can't afford to give away too much of the ML roster to pick up a pitcher. If it's more guys in the minors, then you're talking.

So in the end, to borrow from Bill Clinton, it depends on what the meaning of "and" is.... so to speak.

With Pierre, I think his skill set says he's a leadoff hitter. The question is if his OBP agrees.

BK

dcerros-

Honestly, I couldn't tell you what the Jays would want. I'm sure it would start with young pitching, since everything does. They'd want it, I'm sure they'd ask for LaRoche, and beyond that? I'm not sure. He'd be a nice pickup, at the right price. As for Kemp for Bedard, straight up I'd do it, absolutely. And this from someone who thinks Kemp will be very good. Bedard, though, is a top shelf lefthanded starter who comes cheap for a couple years. Stick him at or near the top of the Dodgers rotation, and that's a high quality group. Jason Schmidt becomes the fifth starter. Yowza!

BK

Yes Brian, I agree wholeheartedly that the Twins new GM has got to be thinking of an even greater blockbuster than Detroit for the top lefty in the game. Kershaw would almost certainly have to be included, along with Kemp and probably Broxton and possibly even Laroche. Yet, if Boston pushes through there rather paltry deal to get him more power to them.

I forgot that the Dodgers have literally only Hendrickson and Kuo now as starting lefty's. Is Kuroda a southpaw? They absolutely need a lefty and if they can't get Bedard or Johann what about a 1/2 Mil, one year offer to Boomer? He seemed pretty good until the ship sank. That's why I thought the Padre's and Wolf signing may yield "wicked large" dividends if he is healthy.

Anything more on Tejada coming here along with Bedard? Since this is a Furcal free agency year, moving Tejada over to third might give Raffy a tad bit more motivation to really get it together.

I think everything revolves around whether Kuroda makes his decision to come to LA or not. If they can land him for a back of the rotation guy then they aren't forced to make a deal on a #1 guy. Penny and Billingsley both have the potential to handle that spot and who knows what shape Schmidt will be in. If he comes out with his old form and brings that to the # 5 spot, watch out.
As for 3B, its time to give LaRoche a shot and see what the kid can do. With Pierre and Jones in the lineup it would be good to have a guy with some patience at the plate. We had enough problems with opponents starters going late into games last year because everyone got a little swing happy on the first pitch.

BK -
I agree that the most important point you made is that the Dodgers need a firm idea/plan about what everybody's roles will be. Like you said, just knowing that Loney will get his 600 AB's and Bills will get his 35 starts makes the Dodgers better than last year.

The outfield is a highly debatable issue, and as long as the Dodgers bring in another quality starting pitcher, I guess I'm okay with whoever they put out there, as long as there is NO PLATOONING of Kemp/Ethier. Each of them needs to be an everyday player somewhere. I would prefer the Ethier/Jones/Kemp outfield, but then where does the pitching come from?

My dream scenario would be that the Dodgers sign Kuroda and trade Juan Pierre for something of equal value (middle relief/utility guy). That leaves the team with a rotation of Penny, Lowe, Bills, Kuroda, Schmidt/Loaiza...and a lineup of:
Furcal -ss
Martin - c
Loney - 1b
Jones - cf
Kent - 2b
Kemp - lf
LaRoche/Nomar - 3b
Ethier - RF

Pretty similar to yours, Dodger Tony, except that I like Kemp over Juan Pierre. But like I said... IF the Dodgers can get a Santabedharen (haha), for "Kemp and..." then I'd do it. But like BK said, who is the "and?" Tough choices for Colletti, but I would always prefer they spend the money than by making a trade. Trades often create one hole while filling another, and that's never good.

Hey Hollywood Mark,
If Pierre is so great, how come there are no takers? I am waiting for an answer.

I think Andre Eitheir will turn out to be a very solid 10-15 year professional and a dependable right fielder. Matt Kemp is unpredictible. Like I read today, " Kemp may be the next Willie Mays or the next Willie May Aikens". But having Jones in center and Pierre in left and Torre on the bench and with Martin, looney, Furcal, Penny, Saito and the guys, I feel very good about this team.

Is it too much to think Jason Schmidt will be a 12-15 game winner....a solid 3rd or 4th starter?

So let me see...With Pierre in left he will now be able to throw out runners trying to stretch singles when balls are hit to his right or left? He will be able to keep a runner from going from 1st to third when a ball is hit in the gap to his right. He will keep a guy from strecthing a double into a triple when a ball is hit to the left field wall?

Forget it!!! Read that article by that guy Sherman on SI.com....The BEST!!! article about Pierre, Colletti EVER written. He rightly calls Pierre an 'albatross' on the Dodgers. Even Gurnick, who is terrific seems to have fallen under the mass hysteria sweeping America...."Matt Kemp must be traded for somebody!' .... Did you see his latest? That Dodgers can 'dangle' Kemp for a 3rd baseman?! Yeah, Inge straight up!!! Ridiculous!!!

Look, Pierre is good at what he does but what he does is no longer needed in major league baseball. There is a reason why the AL is better and more entertaining than the NL....The DH!.

I hate to admit it but the AL is better baseball because you don't have to watch a pitcher as an automatic out. When pitchers went from Little League thru Minors and into the Majors batting, then they could become even good hitters, but now when they don't bat coming up, forget about it. And please don't tell me about 'strategy' when starters only go 100 pitches and are followed by 3-5 relievers regardless of score.

As the other post pointed out, who would you rather lead off, Rose or Boggs who can lead off with a double or even a homer or Juan maybe slapping a single past the shortstop? Ooooh, he's a threat to steal!!! Big deal!

AK/BK - Like some on the blog I'd be falling down relieved if Coletti put the
"untouchable tag" on Kemp & that Clayton guy.....and go from there.

Along those lines, maybe you dismiss too quickly possibility of trading
Pierre.....pimary candidate = Texas Rangers, dying for a CF, lead-off guy.
Ranger's latest yak = $4M for 2-3 years for the immortal Corey Patterson,
and that's no guaranteed deal. Blogged about for a day or so in Nashville,
but what about essentially LaRoche & Pierre for Ranger's 3B Blalock ?
Sure Pierre carries a big tag, so maybe buy it down for the Rangers.....
.....eat maybe $2M / year, $8M total......at $7M / year Pierre becomes lots
more attractive in this crazy CF market we're seeing.
Even worse ? Dodgers might have to toss in a 2nd tier prospect !
.....still workable, surely no deal buster.
Point = here's a team with a big hole at CF / leadoff.....the contract is a
square peg in a round hole, but can be made to fit using LaRoche and
some $$. Make sense ?

As Dodger fan doesn't bother me one whit to PAY to see Ethier-Jones-Kemp
in the OF next year, like full-time ? Ranger's Blalock speaks for himself,
all-star 2 years ago at age 24, I believe. Nope, Dodgeers won't go to their
graves regretting moving LaRoche....but could very well regret moving
Kemp for the next generation, give or take,

I thought Pierre was french?

jim...Great post!! I wish I had said that!

BTW Joe Sheehan not Joel Sherman (Joel is a NY sportwriter).

get rid of pierre...eat his contract if you have to... he may be able to run like the wind, but even the wind needs to get on base every once in a while...stupid slap bunting and puss arm. Kemp can fill the speed void if they use him properly, and Furcal should hopefully be healthy this year too.

I've got a small gripe that I'm not sure how to direct. In the last few weeks, I've noticed an increase in spam emails that start like this:

--
Dear Dodger Faithful,

Hello!

My name is [X] and I am the Director of [Y] where we are dedicated Dodgers fans!

In celebration of Joe Torre becoming the new Manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, we are offering a very special discount of 25% OFF ...
--

If selling my email address was part of the pool of money that went to Mr. Jones, then I guess I don't mind having to hit the delete key a few extra times. If it's going to new carpet in the owner's beach house though, I object.

What gives?

Where's Hollywood?

No team wants Pierre because of his large contract. I'm sure they like his speed and contact-hitting ability enough to deal with his lack of arm strength, just like the Dodgers did.

The problem lies in size of his contract. He gets paid too much for a team that wants to trade for him. Colletti had to give him such a big contract because (1) the lack of FA outfielders at the time, (2) the Dodgers were desperate after Drew opted out, (3) with no power available, Colletti went to Plan B: Speed, (4) Colletti had to increase the year and money to beat the Giants to him, (5) MLB had a large increase in revenue last year so teams had more money to spend on FA's: remember Matthews Jr. and Zito?

I love the idea of having any of three above-mentioned SP's in Blue.

But...

would dealing Kemp hurt us too much offensively?

Maybe DETROIT will take Pierre, straight up for INGE.

Tigers have plenty of pop, no doubt about that! They could use a speed guy, and will definitely trade INGE sometime before the spring.

Yahoo runor page says White Sox may be interested in Pierre.
Please keep Ethier. I see him as a 20-25 hr guy. .290-.310 hitter. If he had those numbers and was a free agent what would he be getting.?
David

Kemp and Eithier could become REAL DODGERS. Life long LA, blue blooded solid players. Imagine the arms with Jones, Kemp, and Eithier. an Infield of Loney, Kent, Furcal, and LaRoach/Garciaparra. Solid, Solid.....Solid....My lineup would go like this......

SS Furcal
C Martin
2B Kent/Garciaparra
CF Jones
1B Loney/Garciaparra
LF Kemp
RF Eithier
3B Garciaparra/LaRoach

P Penny
P Lowe
P Billlingsley
P Schmidt
P A battle for the 5th

I know these guys, I like them, and they can compete. What else do you want? The Yankees?

AK/BK/Anybody

What is the status on Brazoban? Will he be able to join the bullpen next year?
Requiring minds want to know...

Josh-

I agree with your sentiments about Kemp and Ethier. I have expressed them before myself. Letting either of these guys go for anything other than a "How can you say no?" type of deal is a very bad idea.

But no way should, or will, Martin bat number two. Several reasons:

1- Torre will be smarter about him than Little was. That means he will be resting at least every 6th game, assuming we can find a capable backup. You do not want your number 2 hitter switiching every 6 games.

2- We all know that Martin is a scrappy, agressive, true ballplayer. That's why we all love him. He's the knid of guy who looks for a flaw in the pitcher/catcher and exploits it. That's how he wound up with 20 SBs last year, not because he has blazing speed. Putting him in the two hole caters to this, but in the long run, will hurt him. Torre, if anything, will tell Russ to calm down a little on the basepaths, and subsequently bat him 6-7. Not as a knock on his bat, but so that he is less frequently in a position to pressure himself to grab that extra bag.

As a former catcher himself, Torre knows how to handle backstops. Just take a look at Jorge Posada, one of the best, most consistent catchers of this generation. I acn only hope as a devout Dodger, and especially Martin, fan that Russ stays as healthy as Posada has. I really think Torre had a lot to do with that for Jorge, and will for Russ.

As for Pierre, I am not a big fan because he's black. Just kidding. The race card has to be the worst debate tactic known to man behind "I know you are but what am I." (Can we go to recess yet?) Additionally, do you think anyone is going to take you seriously now?

In 2006, he led the major leagues in outs made (532), the second-highest out total for a player since 1982.

In 2007, he made 472 outs. His weak ground balls to second get a pass. At least he didn't strike out - right hollywood.

Also, those outs are seldom "productive" outs. His 140 foot flyballs are never deep enough for a baserunner to advance or score. He had a total of 2 sac flies all year.

He managed only 33 walks in 729 plate appearances. Mattingly needs to have him stand in the batters box without a bat and identify pitches as they're thrown saying "ball" or "strike." He either needs Lasik surgery or a tutorial on the strike zone. (My guess is both.) He swung at pitches at chin level and 6-8 inches off the plate regularly.

Matt Kemp.....

The next Willie Mays? Willie Mays Aikens? or Willie Mays Hayes?

I have noticed an almost total lack of support for the possibility of trading Garciaparra. What do we do with him at this point? Torre is not a platoon type of manager, which means that a Laroche/Garciaparra third base swap is unlikely. Similarly, I think that Torre would be uncomfortable having BOTH Ethier AND Kemp starting in the outfield, due to the limit on experience, especially if Laroche plays third full time. This is why I think that one or the other (Kemp/Ethier) will not be a Dodger beginning in the spring. Also, Tom Singer of MLB.Com mentioned LA as a possible suitor for Santana, something I have not heard in print until now. I have to think that Kemp is most likely on his way out of town if the team is looking for a front line pitcher via trade, less likely via free agency.
But Nomar? An $8 Mil pinch hitter? His RISP numbers were off the charts last year, even with his "problems". Is it conceivable that he gets ejected? I can't see him playing third solely. Isn't he taking up a roster spot that could be used by Young who can pinch hit RT AND platoon IF/OF? What about moving Kemp back to Vegas, I have heard some mention of that.
I think adding Nomar to a trade may be prudent at this point.

i think colletti has too big an ego to trade or sit pierre

lets just hope if no deal gets done, torre has the guts to play the best 3 outfielders

Andy B-

If I remember correctly, Brazoban is on schedule to throw normally in ST. Hope that helps.

BK

Random Thoughts

Dodger Tony
Nomar will be incredibly valuable to us this year one way or the other. If we don't get a third baseman, he & LaRoche will fight it out in spring. The Dodgers would clearly like to see LaRoche win the job outright--if not, Nomar will be the 3rd baseman and LaRoche will be in Vegas to start the year. If Andy wins the job, Nomar becomes the next Olmedo Saenz for us--spot starter at first and third, but primarily the late-inning pinch hitter (the "Nomato" as I like to call him.). Nomar has always been big in the clutch. How many times did we see the "killer" Tomato kill us last year striking out with the bases loaded in the 8th inning and us down a run. Nomar could thrive in this role and may respond with more punch since his injury-prone body won't have to play all the time. His attitude is great--he's already told the Blue he'll do whatever they want him to do. He's motivated to do this because he doesn't want to up-root his wife and 2 new twins. A veteran, "team player" with big-game experience and a clutch history is a luxury that most teams would love to have but can't afford these days in the era of 10 mil a year mediocre players--but we can and should.

As for people talking about Bandon Inge--WHY??????? Just because he plays third base and is available now? Have you looked at his numbers?? I would venture to say LaRoche can hit .240 with 13 homers, why would we trade for that?? Nomar's better than that even if he repeated last year's horrible numbers. So again I ask why?? The only guy out there that I would trade for is Beltre (Cabrera and A-Rod being off the table). He is consistent and is a Dodger (I think Boras sold him a bill of goods 3 years ago and I bet he'd tell you if he could that he wishes he'd never left LA) Rolen, Crede, Blalock and all the other names mention have injury problems that dog them and rob them of their value. Beltre, on the other hand, played with a serious ankle problem for the whole 2004 season and nearly won the triple crown. If we got him back, I might be tempted to put Repko in left field in spring games and hope he dove into Beltre like he did Furcal--we might have the next Mike Schmidt on our hands.

About Ethier. I got to see him play for Vegas before he was called up in '06 and I was impressed by how comfortable he looked at the plate and how smooth he was. Then he was called up and hit .330 for 4 months until he got hurt in Sept. Last year, he got screwed up trying to win his spot back after he was benched in favor of Gonzo, Pierre, and Kemp, plus, he had never got his stroke back from the shoulder injury and apparently wasn't getting any help from Eddie Murray. Long story short--people keep saying that he won't be a star, just a steady player. I think one of the ESPN guys called him a "fringe" player or "marginal". I beg to differ. From what I've seen, I think Ethier could very legitimately have a shot at a batting title. I think that if given a starting job and left alone, he'll hit well in excess of .300. Power comes late, but he's already shown with his 15? (was it) homers last year in limited time that he's already capable of hitting over 20--so 30 homer power is completely possible. He's got a great arm (just needs to learn to hit the cut-off man) and plays great defense. I've said before that becuase he wears #16 he reminds me a lot of Rick Monday, but I think he's better than Rick was (just not as fast). Joe Torre, when he first went to the Yankees had a right fielder who was not viewed as an elite player, but was one I bet Joe has wished he'd had back the last 7 or 8 years and that was Paul O'Neill. I think Ethier will be better than O'Neill. There was a reason the old Dodger scout jumped out of his chair in the hotel room 2 years ago when Ethier's name was mentioned as a possible trade for Bradley--the kid is a player and we should let him play.

Finally-
I don't see any trade for SantaBedHaren or whatever their names are happening until Kuroda signs with someone. I think Ned--rightfully so, would like to simply sign Kuroda and not have to trade anyone right now. He knows he needs another pitcher and will be forced to explore a trade if Kuroda goes elsewhere. So I think we're on hold until then.
On that note, I think Kuroda WILL sign with the Dodgers even if it is a year and some cash less than what Seattle is offering. Think about it-- You're coming from Japan and want to experience the Big Leagues and you want to win. You can go to Seattle or you can go to the second largest market in America; home of Hollywood and with tons of star-power. A team with a great tradition and a following in Japan because of Nomo. A team with one of your friends in Saito. A team that has just signed a legendary, hall of fame manager. A team that has just signed a big name free agent and is poised to do great things next year and in years to come. Come on, how hard is it going to be for him to decide. Have Torre, Saito and Alyssa Milano meet him at the airport with a contract in hand and just show him where to sign--it's a done deal.

Random Thoughts

Dodger Tony
Nomar will be incredibly valuable to us this year one way or the other. If we don't get a third baseman, he & LaRoche will fight it out in spring. The Dodgers would clearly like to see LaRoche win the job outright--if not, Nomar will be the 3rd baseman and LaRoche will be in Vegas to start the year. If Andy wins the job, Nomar becomes the next Olmedo Saenz for us--spot starter at first and third, but primarily the late-inning pinch hitter (the "Nomato" as I like to call him.). Nomar has always been big in the clutch. How many times did we see the "killer" Tomato kill us last year striking out with the bases loaded in the 8th inning and us down a run. Nomar could thrive in this role and may respond with more punch since his injury-prone body won't have to play all the time. His attitude is great--he's already told the Blue he'll do whatever they want him to do. He's motivated to do this because he doesn't want to up-root his wife and 2 new twins. A veteran, "team player" with big-game experience and a clutch history is a luxury that most teams would love to have but can't afford these days in the era of 10 mil a year mediocre players--but we can and should.

As for people talking about Bandon Inge--WHY??????? Just because he plays third base and is available now? Have you looked at his numbers?? I would venture to say LaRoche can hit .240 with 13 homers, why would we trade for that?? Nomar's better than that even if he repeated last year's horrible numbers. So again I ask why?? The only guy out there that I would trade for is Beltre (Cabrera and A-Rod being off the table). He is consistent and is a Dodger (I think Boras sold him a bill of goods 3 years ago and I bet he'd tell you if he could that he wishes he'd never left LA) Rolen, Crede, Blalock and all the other names mention have injury problems that dog them and rob them of their value. Beltre, on the other hand, played with a serious ankle problem for the whole 2004 season and nearly won the triple crown. If we got him back, I might be tempted to put Repko in left field in spring games and hope he dove into Beltre like he did Furcal--we might have the next Mike Schmidt on our hands.

About Ethier. I got to see him play for Vegas before he was called up in '06 and I was impressed by how comfortable he looked at the plate and how smooth he was. Then he was called up and hit .330 for 4 months until he got hurt in Sept. Last year, he got screwed up trying to win his spot back after he was benched in favor of Gonzo, Pierre, and Kemp, plus, he had never got his stroke back from the shoulder injury and apparently wasn't getting any help from Eddie Murray. Long story short--people keep saying that he won't be a star, just a steady player. I think one of the ESPN guys called him a "fringe" player or "marginal". I beg to differ. From what I've seen, I think Ethier could very legitimately have a shot at a batting title. I think that if given a starting job and left alone, he'll hit well in excess of .300. Power comes late, but he's already shown with his 15? (was it) homers last year in limited time that he's already capable of hitting over 20--so 30 homer power is completely possible. He's got a great arm (just needs to learn to hit the cut-off man) and plays great defense. I've said before that becuase he wears #16 he reminds me a lot of Rick Monday, but I think he's better than Rick was (just not as fast). Joe Torre, when he first went to the Yankees had a right fielder who was not viewed as an elite player, but was one I bet Joe has wished he'd had back the last 7 or 8 years and that was Paul O'Neill. I think Ethier will be better than O'Neill. There was a reason the old Dodger scout jumped out of his chair in the hotel room 2 years ago when Ethier's name was mentioned as a possible trade for Bradley--the kid is a player and we should let him play.

Final Random Thought

I don't see any trade for SantaBedHaren or whatever their names are happening until Kuroda signs with someone. I think Ned--rightfully so, would like to simply sign Kuroda and not have to trade anyone right now. He knows he needs another pitcher and will be forced to explore a trade if Kuroda goes elsewhere. So I think we're on hold until then.
On that note, I think Kuroda WILL sign with the Dodgers even if it is a year and some cash less than what Seattle is offering. Think about it-- You're coming from Japan and want to experience the Big Leagues and you want to win. You can go to Seattle or you can go to the second largest market in America; home of Hollywood and with tons of star-power. A team with a great tradition and a following in Japan because of Nomo. A team with one of your friends in Saito. A team that has just signed a legendary, hall of fame manager. A team that has just signed a big name free agent and is poised to do great things next year and in years to come. Come on, how hard is it going to be for him to decide. Have Torre, Saito and Alyssa Milano meet him at the airport with a contract in hand and just show him where to sign--it's a done deal.

yeah ... i read that article too saying the whitesox might be interested in pierre cuz they need a leadoff guy. make that deal for a bucket of baseballs ... just don't trade kemp. he's part of the dodger's future nucleus.

There's no doubt Pierre is the weakest of the bunch - maybe Ned could get creative and dump him on some unsuspecting GM like the Hated Ones dumped M Morris and his over-inflated contract........ended up costing that guy his job. If Sabean can do it, so can Ned !!!!
RF- Kemp
CF- Jones
LF- Ethier
Play ball !!!

I've seen references to Kemp as being uncoachable and lazy. If so, then will someone please explain how he managed to hit .342. Didn't he end 2006 having all sorts of problems with breaking pitches. Did this lazy, uncoachable player actually spend some time workiing on those weaknesses, or did he just naturally improve without breaking a sweat. If anyone is not aware of it, Kemp played winter ball last year, and got off to a horrendous start, only to finish very stongly. Could it be that he was working on his pitch recognition, and as the result of continuous repettition began making headway.

And when Kemp did do things wrong, who was there to set him straight. I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. I watched a game last year in which Kemp had trouble with the sun in rightfield. Turns out he was making a fashion statement and wearing his sunglasses on TOP of his cap. Apparently, no one (manager or coaches) said a word to him, because the next inning he ran back out to the outfield with his sunglasses still perched on the top of his cap. Whose fault was that? Kemp, or the coaching staff? And, if perchance, he was told to wear the sunglasses below the bill of his cap, why wasn't he removed from the game right then and there after returning to the outfield with the glasses atop his cap? Why? I'll tell you why. Apparently, no said a word. So was he uncoachable, or simply uncoached? (Is that a word?).

And, of course, Kemp is a troublemaker. Kid has a terrible attitude. After all, he did make some not too complimentary comments in reaction to the saintly Mr. Kent's remarks. But didn't Loney also question Kent's leadership? Just another upstart young troublemaker. True, it was Kent who opened Pandora's box, but he can't be to blame. After all, he a respected future HOF veteran. Had to be the kids, especially that Kemp guy.

Finally, I recall seeing a post (don't remember who wrote it) which at the very least intimated that Andruw Jones doesn't walk much. It's true that Jones strikes out a lot, but he also walks. These are his walk totals for the last four years:

2004 -= 71
2005 = 64
2006 = 82
2007 = 70

dodgerskip - can I just get the Cliffsnotes, please ?

sorry about the multiple post--the "anit-spam" blocker said that my post hadn't been accepted so I tried again, and again. apparently anti-spam blocking software is programed to lie. (should hook it up with H.A.L. from 2001 A Space Odessy--they'd be sure to hit it off.

Ineresting article out 10 hours ago in St. Pete Times, via foxsports......

Lead paragraph almost literally....."Ray's No 1 target ENDRE ETHIER,
presumed on the block after the Andruw signing, etc......
Rays find themselves in a need for a power / LH / COF for whatever
the reason. From Rays to Dodgers ? .....starting pitching prospects
was the topic .....of more interest is fact TB has maybe the best farm
in MLB......plus first mention I've read Ethier on the block.
Just a rumor, but would assume it would be automatic for Dodgers to
unload Timberrr back on those Rays at the same time here, pick up
another prospect or two, hahaha

Would hate to lose Ethier, but only logical if Dodgers can't move /
buy down / otherwise rid themselves of Pierre's contract......again
what an unfortunate albatross to a kick rear outfield. Wait awhile Ned,
TBs propsects arent going away......ponder rtdding Dodgers of Pierre's
conract, must be some creative re-financing out there, like eating a
portion of it to facilitate moving him ?

Dodger Skip,
Nice thoughts. But there is a pretty familiar guy by the name of Ichiro in right field in Seattle and they are offering him four years. I just hope the Snakes don't get Kuroda.
I agree with your thoughts regarding Nomar. I just wonder if Torre might feel some pressure to play him even if Laroche wins third base outright.
As far as Ethier, I am a big fan of his. I like his attitude and consistency, which is something that has seemed to elude the Dodgers for years now. I would much rather keep him than Kemp. Not a Kemp believer at all, I'm afraid.

tommex-

I just saw that the Rays are interested in Ethier as well. I'm not a huge fan of letting Ethier go to anyone, but maybe we can strike some sort of deal with them to land us Kazmir.

Imagine that.

GAGNE!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?
ymd=20071208&content_id=2321322&vkey=
news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos&partnered=rss_bos

Middle relief, and full circle.

There are a few of you putting Jeff Kent way too high in the projected batting order.....(Dodger Tony: 3rd?????) To my mind, Matt Kemp is an ideal #2 hitter...has some power, good average and is loaded with speed. Trading him now, with all the possibilities that Andruw Jones brings to the team would be a shame. Matt Kemp is still young and prone to mental lapses, but given the option of advancing a runner ahead of him already on first or second base might be just the sort of thing to bring his ability into focus. He batted in the middle a lot last year and I don't see him as mature enough quite yet to be a situational type hitter like Hideki Matsui. In the two slot, he is either moving a runner, or trying to get on base for the clean up hitters behind him. Let him prove himself there, find his style....THEN consider moving him down the road, when neccesity rears it's desparate head. Home runs are great, but this kid could be so much more that a clean up hitter. I doubt very much he'd ever be able to ignore Larry Bowa's signals more than once. Joe Torre is all about being prepared and mentally in the game. Matt Kemp now has the coaching staff to help smooth out the rough edges on his potential and all around game. He was my favorite player in 2006 and never failed to capture my attention in 2007. It would be my greatest dissapointment for him to be traded. Please Ned: DON'T TRADE MATT KEMP!!!!

HAD GRADY LITTLE NOT BEEN HERE, WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE PROBLEM OF JUAN PIERRE!!! I'M GLAD HE'S NOT HERE TO PUT UP HIS RIDICULOUS LINE-UPS!! JUAN PIERRE NEEDS TO GO, HE REMINDS ME OF GRADY LITTLE...

remind you of anyone? haha.

Regarding the Ethier speculation mentioned by Tommex in his post from yesterday, I presume this is the article he was referring to:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/07/Rays/Rays_taking_patient_a.shtml

By the way, since Tommex mentioned Timberrr in his post (and I've seen him mentioned before), does anyone know exactly what his contract status is? I thought that the Dodgers might just non-tender him on December 12th, the last day for teams to offer contracts to unsigned players. If he already has a contract (I doubt it), that would be a different story.

tommex -

I saw a similar report concerning interest in Ethier - by both the Rangers and Rays.

In regards to Pierre, it seems the White Sox could be interested...

From the Chicago Sun Times: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/685060,deluca120607.article

"Acquiring [Andruw] Jones also allows the Dodgers to entertain offers for speedy center fielder Juan Pierre, the former Cub whom Guillen adores from their days together with the Marlins. The Sox are still in need of a legit leadoff hitter, and Pierre would team well at the top of the Sox’ lineup with newly acquired shortstop Orlando Cabrera — Williams’ lone bright spot this offseason — in the No. 2 spot. Say what you will about Pierre, but he would be an improvement over current leadoff favorite Jerry Owens.

And adding Pierre might make more sense than re-acquiring Rowand.

The Sox are still weighed down by an aging, slow middle lineup. Rowand, 30, will provide pop — and better defense in center field — but Pierre would add the speed element Guillen has been craving.

Pierre, 30, signed a five-year, $44 million contract last offseason with the Dodgers. He is among the crop of recent free-agent center fielders — a group that includes the Los Angeles Angels’ Torii Hunter and Gary Matthews Jr. — who landed five-year deals, setting the bar for Rowand.

Yes, Pierre’s on-base percentage has slipped since an impressive .374 in 2004, but he has stolen at least 45 bases in each of his seven full major-league seasons, including a career-high 64 in 2007."

One final thought...I recall reading a portion of a post about how everyone is on Pierre to be replaced in the lineup/field, yet Furcal's name never comes up. One reason for this is because Furcal has seemingly had to play hurt for parts of each of his seasons in LA, a legitimate excuse. Pierre's name comes up so often as the guy to replace in the lineup/field, because we actually have better options on the team to replace him with!

If Hu...(Well then who's on first? Yes. I mean the fellow's name. Hu. The guy on first. Hu. The first baseman. Hu. The guy playing... HU is on first! I'm asking YOU who's on first. That's the man's name. That's Who's name? Yes. Well go ahead and tell me. That's it. That's Who? Yes. [you know the rest])...As I was saying, if Hu was ready to replace Furcal at SS, than perhaps this same argument would be made about Furcal; however, since he's probably a year away from taking over full-time, we'll have to save this debate for next year, which I'm SURE is going to happen.......

Oh, and yes, I know LONEY is the guy on first. The first baseman. The guy playing... That's the man's name. Yes. That's it. Yes.

J,

Have to disagree with you. Matt Kemp is hardly an ideal 2nd place hitter. He is a potential power guy who shows very little patience or plate discipline. Russell Martin, who has those qualities and can hit behind a runner fits far better.

ALS

"Cliff Notes" version of Dskip's random thoughts:

Nomar good. Inge Bad. Ethier good. Kuroda in the bag.

BK/AK

After reading and writing about all the possibilites and personalities that we're faced with, I couldn't help but wonder what Joe Torre, Don Mattingly & Co. are thinking about their team at this point. They've had about a month now to collect info, and review film and stats of their new team and I would love to hear what they are thinking. Is there any chance of you guys pulling a few strings or making a phone call or two and setting up an interview with any of the new coaches to see what their views are on how the team is shaping up? What they invision for next year? Who they like at leadoff Furcal or Pierre? Do they want to see Martin starting 150 games or getting more rest? Blah, blah, blah. Thanks.

BrookD - Exactly the same article I quoted from. Don't know how to add
URLs onscreen or I would have, thanks.

nick - Kazmir for Ethier would be off the scale good. Throw in Timberrr
for firewood and an A baller. TB also owns rights to pitcher David Price,
last year's # 1......if you're really into miracles.
Who knows about the crazy Rays ? But their obvious interest in Ethier
plus superbo farm system is intriguing.

BigDinsky - Would hope your approach is correct. Maybe Dodgers just
testing waters for Ethier while toiling feverishly to dump the Pierre contract.
ChiSox interest should be pursued to the max, ditto Texas Rangers.....
.....several teams out there moaning about holes at CF, including Orioles
(Bedard) whatever one chooses to make of that,
Cheerio,

btw - sorry about typo above.....lose 3 posts to the system and one types
tooo fast.....always blame the system, no ?

J,

I have to agree with Chunkdog. As much as I like Kemp he still isn't experienced or disciplined enough to hit in the 2nd hole. I also agree that Russell Martin fits perfectly into that position. He's a patient disciplined hitter with extra base power, and with guys like Kemp, Jones and Loney coming up after him, he'd be awful tough to pitch to (especially with Furcal on base). I like Kemp batting third, Jones fourth and Loney fifth. I could see flip flopping Kemp and Loney, but prefer to have Kemp's speed nearer the top of the order. Besides, Kemp hit well in the third spot last year. Might well be six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Also, I would not want to see Kemp concentrating on moving runners along one base at a time. I prefer that he moves them all the way around to home plate. And furthermore, with Jones and Loney coming up behind him, the third hole is an ideal spot for him to learn to take a walk when it's available. Hopefully, with experience and maturity, Kemp will learn that he doesn't have to swing very hard to drive the ball a long way. Fact is, he doesn't always have to get all of the ball to muscle it out. Kemp will not turn 24 until next September. He's going to get a lot stronger over the next few years.

The Big Dodger in the Sky,

I think Furcal's name doesn't come up as a candidate to be replaced for several reasons:

1. Lots of us are hopeful that he will bounce back from his ankle injury. Let's just hope that the disk problem he had at the end of the year doesn't flare up.

2. Furcal will be in the final year of his contract at $13 million. Without an assurance that they could extend his contract, interested teams would be wary about dealing for him, unless the price in players wasn't too high. In that case the Dodgers may not be interested, unless they are perfectly confident that Hu is the answer, and ready now.

3. The Dodgers would probably like to see Hu get a full year of AAA before handing the job to him. Could also be that sometime during the season Hu will be called up to get additional experience, and demonstrate whether or not he can be expected to be ready in 2009.

4. I imagine that other teams are aware of Furcal's late season back problem, and may be reluctant to deal for him.

5. If the Dodgers have any doubts about Hu, then they probably want to use this year to further evaluate Ivan DeJesus, Jr. He is probably 2-3 years away, and will likely move up a classification or two this year.

6. Because Hu already has some AAA experience, and because he performed well in his September callup, the Dodgers probably view him as insurance should Furcal have any health problems in 2008.

tommex,

There may be other ways to do it, but I add a URL by copying it from the address bar, and then pasting it into my posting. That's unlike BK and AK, who create a link with a phrase that obviously houses the URL. I can't do that.

Like the Timberrr firewood reference. I'm not sure David Price could be traded until the summer. I think draft picks are ineligible to be traded for a year after they're drafted. Someone may be able to confirm that one way or the other.

AK/BK - ditto dodgerskip above - imho, best question on this thread.......

Not just what Torre & Co are thinking tactically / strategically......
......but also in sense of how much weight / wallop their thinking carries.
We all know the owner-GM-manager hierarchy in MLB.....but issue of
who holds the final say varies from team to team, no ?
Last year was Coletti's show...McCourt seemed content to write the checks,
while Grady (duh) Little was content to work with the AARP crowd Ned
provided him......dismal failure, Ned hardly distinguished, Grady axed for
Joe Torre.
If McCourt ? Not interested in Little's opinions, lineups are strange enough.
Grady half famous for having no opinions in fact.

But Torre & Co's opinions ? Whole different story here, no ?
Hmmm, if now I'm McCourt ? Pretty certain I'm not going to blank check
Ned for another year without kicking anything of significance around with
my HOF manager & his 2 primo assts.....nope, no way, I want Torre's input.

Enough to make me wonder if Torre & Co aren't the de facto GMs......
......Ned more like the good ole boy, back slapper, deal maker.....
McCourt writing the checks on Torre's advice w/ Ned's approval.....

Called a power shift, predicated by Torre & Co not being content to sit
back & manage with the AARP types Ned favors. Nope these boys know
their players, know who they want / need......supreme professionals,

Makes it even more fascinating wondering what they're up to........

Thanks for the C-Notes Dskip - was just jokin' ya - I actually enjoyed the rambling - er - random thoughts posts last night (especially the Kuroda signing with Torre, Saito, and Alyssa @ the airport). I purposely saved reading it 'till right before bedtime - put me straight to sleep.......
__
Been feelin' kinda bad for Juan P - he did lead the league in sac. bunts and was second in SB last season. Whenever I saw an interview with him he always struck me as a well-spoken, humble, "team-first" , solid, all-around good guy. If he only had an arm, and wouldn't hit the ball in the air so often...
__
Also agree with the Beltre musings by Dskip. The Dodgers were the only team that he ever knew since he was a teenager playin at Campos Las Palmas. BorAss (being the best at what he does) easily convinced Adrian to follow the money to Seattle. So Beltre goes up there, no friends, it's always raining, he becomes depressed - doesn't venture outside much except to the ballpark. Pretty soon, the game isn't as fun for him anymore. You think BorAss gives a crap about any of that? - he got his % from the big signing, he's happy.....
Then again, he tried the same with A-Rod, and A-Rod was smart enough to blow that highest bidder tack off and go to the Yanks himself - Beltre let himself be led around on the leash by Borass, and didn't speak up. If he wanted to stay with the Dodgers so much - he shoulda communicated that fact with his money-grubbing agent.

BrookD - thx for info, 100% routine deal, never occurred it worked on blogs.
....some won't allow live links for whatever reasons.

btw - You are 100% correct about Price being ineligible for trade until
Aug 2008.....a fantasy name in any event as regards Ethier.
Kazmir notwithstanding, if I were Coletti I'd order up the latest on the
TB prospects Mon. morning......maybe expand things a little.....give Logan
White & Co a chance to study how best to plunder best farm in MLB.
All gain, no pain while waiting to see if Pierre can be moved......

One question - why in the world does it take SO LONG for a post to show up on this blog ? Other blogs I've been to - when you hit "post", it shows up a second or two later. Does someone have to read through the whole post before it is truly posted ? It sure prevents a streaming conversation from occurring. Madness. That ridiculous robot thing is more Madness.....

Pierre to the White Sox?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/685060,deluca120607.article

Please Santa......PLEASE!!!!!!! I'll be a good boy for the rest of the decade.

ALS,

"One question - why in the world does it take SO LONG for a post to show up on this blog ? Other blogs I've been to - when you hit "post", it shows up a second or two later. Does someone have to read through the whole post before it is truly posted ? It sure prevents a streaming conversation from occurring. Madness. That ridiculous robot thing is more Madness....."

The answer to your question is, yes, either BK or I (or someone in the Times' office, if it's during business hours) actually foes have to approve the post before it goes live. It's the Times' call, not ours. If you don't like it, please feel free to write them and let them know, because it does indeed slow things up. But until then, BK and I do what we can, but we can't be in front of a computer 24/7, as I'm sure you understand.

AK

AK,

Maybe you and BK need to be in front of a computer 24/7 to rescue these guys.

http://sandisk.eprize.net/buzzaboutbots/

Might solve the bot problem.

Sorry for bringing this up again Santa, but, please, please, please, send Pierre to the White Sox for my Christmas present.

I haven't wanted something this much since the Cabbage Patch phenomenon.

I propose the trade of Juan Pierre for a marginal single A hopeless prospect and the Dodgers choice of one Jerry Reinsdorf necktie.

Read, that the D-Rays were interested in Ethier? How about a package of Etheir, Pierre, MacDonald/Elbert, Abreu, and throw in Hendy for Scott Kazmir and Rocco Baldelli.

What are these bots everyone's talking about? Luckily I've not seen a problem here

wausroamer,

Sounds like a great way to kick off the new relationship we have with the Chisox in Arizona.

I know that after the Andruw Jones signing, the smart thing to do is take some of our young players and get a frontline starter; either Santana or Bedard.
It just feels wrong to give up Kemp or Ethier and have to look at the opening day roster and see Pierre at left field, its just wrong!wrong!wrong!

If the Dodgers get the japanese pitcher Kuroda, then the trade isn't necessary, but it looks like the bidding is going to 15-mil. a year, for a pitcher with no MLB experience.
If thats the case, I say roll the dice on a trade and pay the the extra 3-5 million on an extension for Santana(20-mil.) or Bedard(18-mil.)

Kemp and Kershaw for Santana
or
Ethier and Kershaw for Bedard

If the trade happens then I say the Dodgers keep going and trade Pierre for whatever they can get for him and find a cheaper one-year replacement.
What about Kenny Lofton, the guy should have resigned instead of going after Pierre. Or hand the spot to Delwyn Young.

If the Dodgers get the japanese pitcher Kuroda, then the trade isn't necessary, but it looks like the bidding is going to 15-mil. a year, for a pitcher with no MLB experience.
If thats the case, I say roll the dice on a trade and pay the the extra 3-5 million on an extension for Santana(20-mil.) or Bedard(18-mil.)

Kemp and Kershaw for Santana
or
Ethier and Kershaw for Bedard

If the trade happens then I say the Dodgers keep going and trade Pierre for whatever they can get for him and find a cheaper one-year replacement.
What about Kenny Lofton, the guy should have resigned instead of going after Pierre. Or hand the spot to Delwyn Young.

Let's say that the Dodgers are forced to keep Pierre and his bloated contract around. Now, that leaves Ethier as the main chip Colletti will want to package in a deal for a starting pitcher.

Assuming the Dodgers don't win the Kuroda sweepstakes, we could package Ethier, Kershaw and possibly Meloan for Bedard. Would you Dodgers fans make that trade?

Yes, Kershaw is our No. 1 prospect, but Bedard is a sure-thing -- unlike the past figures of Edwin Jackson, Chuck Tiffany and Joel Guzman.

Besides, even if Kershaw and Meloan are shipped out, there's still plenty left in the cupboard:

1. Chris Withrow (1st rounder this year). RHP who could be in Triple-A by end of this season. He's 19 years old.
2. Chin-Lung Hu (SS when Furcal is done in L.A.)
3. Scott Elbert (LHP who was our No. 1 prospect until shoulder injury)
Others:
Blake DeWitt, James McDonald, Delwyn Young.

AK - thanks for the response - I'm new at the blog thing and the few I've been to are instantaneous - I was lucky to find a great baseball blog that has several knowledgable and well-spoken baseball fans.... they are FAR from Dodger fans - They are the Enemy - but I'm sophisticated enough - barely - to get by with my wit and whimsy to get good conversation.
It's too bad the LA Times can't measure up to the SF Chronicle in the quality deptartment. Youse guys are missin' out.
Look - it's EASY - if some bonehead gets too far off track - ban 'em - most real hardball fans aren't gonna venture too far off the tracks.... whattya worried about ???? You got the power to shut out the few and far between violators of common decency - you gotta go REAL TIME to be valid. Join the Future soon you laggards.

Pierre really isn't that bad... can he play 2nd base?

As a baseball fan, the Andruw Jones deal makes me very afraid for the future of ticket prices. Baseball is heading toward NBA status. Jones is a player with a lifetime batting average of .264 and it is definitely in a downward trend -.222 last year. He strikes out 25% of the time. Jones is a player who couldn't be a regular on a number of teams, let alone being paid a monster salary.

benzojones,

It's a possibility, but, I'm not sure Pierre has the arm strength to make the throw from second base.

Brooklyn Dodger,

I don't think the ChiSox will be upset about losing Pepe Longstocking.

Therefore, II think the whole scenario depends on which Reinsdorf necktie they choose.

If he has an all-time favorite, and LA takes that one, then, I could see the spring training duplex situation starting off with a strained relationship.

"The bigger question comes if the Dodgers arrive at Spring Training with all four of their current OFs. Bill Plaschke wrote this morning that the Dodgers won't- and shouldn't- trade Pierre. That he should be the everyday left fielder. I would disagree. No doubt the speed and bunting to which Plaschke refers is a very useful thing to have around, and clearly there are worse players they could find to stick out there, but overall, I think Ethier is the better all around player, and there's no question Kemp offers more to the lineup than Pierre"

"Maybe I'm among the minority of writers who thinks the Dodgers are, right now, a pretty good team, perhaps the best in the division. They were in '07, before the bottom fell out. Just by what they've done- bringing in Torre, signing Jones, giving a full year to Loney and Kemp in the field, and Billingsley in the starting lineup- they should be better in '08. Now they have the depth to get even better. But to assume the Dodgers need some sort of massive overhaul simply because they finished 82-80 requires a little revisionism."

I concur 100% with these sentiments.

Thanks, Dodgrdog88. It's nice to hear that once in a while (haha).

BK

please colleti ship pierre anywhere we will have a healthy furcal to lead off with loney 2nd then kent jones and kemp martin eithier la roche we will win the division with this lineup

I agree with Ddog88 who agreed with BK on the sentiments posted @ 1:16 pm.
The Rockies rode an incredible wave of momentum to end last season, it was fun while it lasted, but I'm pretty sure they will come back to reality next season - 3rd or 4th place. The D-Backs were hard to figure out. It's still hard to believe they won that many games. The Pads folded (not as bad as the Dodgers, though) at the end to let Rocks and D-Backs in. Snakes also come back to earth next season :
1st - Dodgers
2nd- Padres
3rd- D-Backs
4th- Rockies
Last - Hated Ones

Benzo/Wausroamer,

Let's think about this. If Pierre moves to 2nd he'll have to throw righthanded. In doing so he may find that he has a cannon for an arm.

Pretty funny wausroamer, but the real question is can he sport the Kent shades.

I'd like to be real for a second... How can you not start Kemp/Jones/Eithier provided they WIN the jobs in spring training, but given the Dodger health history the past few years... would it kill us to have a pretty damn good fourth outfielder.

I continue to state we should be looking for a pitcher. We should not be looking for a third baseman. We should not be looking for someone to take the French guy off our hands.

Vive la foutre Outfielder!!!!

After all that has been done, from signing to Pierre last year, to signing Andruw last week, there are FOUR OFers on this team right now who are better overall players than Pierre, IMO.

Trading Pierre seems like a longshot, as BK put it, because of his contract. It's simply unattractive to most teams for what you get out of him: a leadoff hitter who doesn't walk much or get on base much, no power, avg defense, at best, and a below avg throwing arm. So you can assume Pierre won't be going anywhere. Colletti has let it be known that he isn't going to just give Kemp away either. And I highly doubt he'd trade him in a large package of two or three other young players just to get one guy. So trading Ethier probably makes the most sense because he could still bring some much needed pitching depth in the rotation. It might not be a front-line starter, but a middle-of-the-rotation guy should be more than enough to help solidify the rotation. So you ask, who's the fourth OFer who's that much better than Pierre? How about Delwyn Young? The kid can play; he can hit, hit for power (anyone remember Vin Scully salivating over his power in September?), and play all three OF positions effectively. Unfortunately, he might not get a lot of playing time; not as long as Pierre is still around. I'm already dreading the adventurous throws from Pierre in LF trying to throw runners out trying to score from second or going from first to thrid on hits to him...

Assuming Ethier is the guy on his way out, I hereby petition for Delwyn Young as the starting left fielder for the Dodgers in 2008.

Hello to all.I've really enjoyed reading the blogs on a day-to-day basis.Great insights! I agree with ALS-this is one of the best blogs for serious dodger fans.AK/BK,Great Job!
With that said, JP has got to go. I would love to see a full season of Kemp and Ethier in the corner fields. Along with Druw in center, this will be a superb outfield; strong arms, great coverage and decent pop in their bats.

Desired christmas gifts: Pierre on a ride outta town.
Kuroda loves l.a. and signs with dodgers.
Play Ball!

dodgrdog88,

I too like Young, and would prefer to see him on the team over Pierre. However, despite his history of being a good minor league hitter, Young still has to prove himself over a longer stretch than a few weeks in September. But there is clearly promise, and I would be willing to see him get regular (or at least semi-regular) playing time.

That said, I don't see Young as being able to play all three outfield positions effectively. To my knowledge, he is not known for his speed, and I don't know much about his arm. Perhaps he could play either corner (depending on whether or not he has the arm for right), but I seriously doubt if he would be able to cover much ground in center. I've also read comments on this blog in the past, where it's been suggested that Young be moved back to the infield to play 2nd or 3rd. Too my knowledge, Young was moved off of 2nd because of defensive deficiencies. I believe he had the reputation of have hands of stone.

So I like the potential of Young's bat, and would not mind seeing an outfield of Young in left, Jones in center and Kemp in right. However, if Ethier is not traded, then I would open the season with him in left. An outfield so constituted would be a vast improvement over last year when we played two rag arms in left (Gonzo) and center (Pierre).

Also, if healthy (a huge IF), Repko is certainly capable of handling a spare outfielders job. He has one of the best arms in the league (possibly the best), and hopefully his history of leg injuries (minors and majors) has not robbed him of too much speed.

Brooklyn,

You and too many other people are stuck on this notion that speed is such a wonderful thing to have, when in reality, it really is such an overrated commodity. I generally don't care how fast someone can get to a ball defensively, but rather how they get to the ball and what they do when they get to it. In the outfield, it's all about getting a good read of the ball off the bat, and taking the right route to get to it.

People can preach all they want about how some players just haven't proven themselves long enough to earn a spot on the roster, or even a starting job. I guess people who preach that seem to forget Russell Martin, or even Dioner Navarro. But the fact remain is, Young is STILL a better option because he is a better overall player than Pierre is, no matter what position he's playing.

And please, people, stop bringing up Repko as a viable option. This guy is nothing more than a 5th OFer or late-inning defensive replacement, at best, due to his lack of offensive production. The guy can't even stay healthy enough to play one month of a season, let alone a full season. His injuries the last two season are a direct result of the way he chooses to play the game defensively.

Full disclosure, I'm a Twins fan. I'm curious what the Dodgers would really be willing to give up to get Santana...bearing in mind that you will get the dominant pitcher in the game. With some run support and a pitchers ballpark, winning 20 plus games, and repeated Cy Young awards...you will dominate the NL West for years to come. Naturally, we'd prefer to send Santana to the NL. You've seen what the Sox have offered. I'm thinking that any offer would need to be Kemp and Kershaw for starters, and probably include LaRoche...maybe that's enough to get it done, maybe it would still take another prospect. I know these
players are highly regarded and I'm not trying to diminish them at all, just trying to compare offers that have already been floated. Any thoughts?

BB,

I think the consensus among Dodgerland is that the Twins are welcome to pick any reasonable package of 3-4 players from the Dodgers organization as long as the list doesn't include Martin, Kemp, Loney, Billingsley, or Kershaw.

Read Ken Gurnick's item about Delwyn Young's defense before you pencil him in at 2nd base. The importance of infield defense can't be overstated, considering Lowe's sinker, Penny's new-found "pitch to contact" style and Billingsley's tendency to walk lots of guys.

It won't matter with Loaiza, however. Fans in the bleachers will simply return the home runs he surrenders.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071209&content_id=2321950&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

BB:

Kemp and Kershaw for Santana? Done.
Throw in LaRoche? Probably but we might need a toekn minor leaguer to make it look good.
Throw in another prize prospect? Maybe not.

All contingent on Santana being willing to sign a long-term deal. And the Dodgers having the money to pony up.

Want Pierre too?

Since the Rangers went with Bradley at CF, it leaves few logical trading partners that need a CF and the White Sox make the most sense. As SaMo alluded to in an earlier post, a Pierre/Crede swap would benefit both teams. In Crede, the Dodgers would get an expiring contract and good defense. He's had injuries but so has Rolen, another rumored 3B target, Nomar and LaRoche. If the Dodgers pay the difference in salary for 2008, around 4 million, the White Sox would be committed to 3 years of Pierre in his prime, they would have their lead-off CF and they solve their 3B situation. The Dodgers would have the two highest-paid back-up 3rd basemen but a better defensive and arguably better offensive outfield.

Please Ned, make the Pierre trade to the White Sox happen. We don't need anything back for him. Just do whatever it takes to make him go away.
Ethier, Jones, Kemp in 08.

Dodgrdog88,

I agree that getting a good read on a ball and running an efficient route are both important attributes for an outfielder. But so is speed, especially if combined with the aforementioned attributes. To some degree getting a good jump on a ball is instinct, but to a large degree it can be taught through continous repetition. On the other hand, while a player can be taught techniques that will improve his speed, still, in general, speed is inborn, and can never be taught. No matter how hard he tries, Delwyn Young could never match the speed of Matt Kemp or Juan Pierre. However, if Young's bat is for real, I'm willing to put up with some defensive deficiencies and a lack of speed, and would definitely play him over Pierre. And might I add, power is an attribute possessed by Young, and is something that Pierre will NEVER develop (I value power as well as speed, but BOTH is always better).

My reference to Young being unproven is merely a statement of fact. Simply put, no player is as good as he is when at his best, nor is he as bad as he is when at his worst. For example, James Loney. Although he hit .331 last year, if anyone only saw him during his prolonged slump (when his average dropped from around .400 to .300) would have concluded that he was not the answer of 1B. Clearly that would have been a mistake.

I said that I like Young, and noted that I wouldn't mind seeing him start the season in left, in place of Juan Pierre. But as much as I recognize his potential, I am cognizant that he is still an unproven commodity.

Getting back to speed, I think it's essential in CF. Lacking speed I doubt if Young could adequately cover enough ground to handle balls hit over his head, and into the gaps. Fact is, we also know very little about Young's ability to read balls off the bat, nor do we know much, if anything, about his route efficiency, not to mention his arm strength). Jones' credentials are well established in CF, and Kemp, while shaky in his routes, has the speed to cover lots of territory, and should be able to improve his reads and routes over time.

As for Repko, we're really not in disagreement. If you carefully read what I wrote, I added a qualification with respect to his health, and never did I suggest that he should be more than a spare outfielder. I didn't address his bat, but quite honestly, I don't think it's anything special, and at best it's probably no more than adequate. But, I repeat, I don't see him as a starting outfielder, which is what prompted me to write that "Repko is certainly capable of handling a SPARE outfielders job."

BK/AK,

My last post (the one addressed to Dodgrdog88) was rejected 3 times by the site's anti-spam filter. Yet, it clearly posted on one of those attempts. Something is wrong.

Brooklyn Dodger-

Yeah, sorry about that. We're having trouble with the platform's new spam filter (updated spam filter, actually). It's not necessarily something we can fix on our end, at least not easily, but we're working on it.

Thanks for you patience (same, btw, applies to everyone else, too).

BK

Don't know how much credence to give this article (it's from the Mariner website), but it states (in the latter portion of the article) that the Dodgers have backed off from Kuroda, and that the two finalists are Seattle and Arizona. Guess we'll know one way or the other by the end of this week.

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071206&content_id=2320160&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea

BrooklynDodger -

Here's an article with a different twist on the Mariners/Dodgers attempts to land Kuroda.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/343072_mari11.html?source=rss

brooklyn... i fully understand what you are saying, but the bottom line is, putting pierre in an OF ahead of any one of four players who are clearly better overall players than him is just simply a big mistake. the addition of jones forcing pierre to LF is an absolute nightmare considering pierre's deficiencies, and having his bat in the lineup is only going to hinder the offense. too many people (not necessarily you) keep mentioning his avg, SBs and runs scored, but the fact remains, you cant have a leadoff hitter (or even a guy hitting second which he did mostly in 07) have 729 plate appearances and walk only 33 times. its just not productive.

Brian,

Thanks. Your article is more recent, and therefore probably more accurate.

Dodgrdog88,

Bottom line is, we seem to be mostly in agreement. Both of us would probably trade Pierre for a bag of used baseballs and resin bags. And to make the deal more enticing to the acquiring team, I'm sure that both of us would agree to throw in a wad of cash to subsidize the remaining 4 years of his contract.

As much as I would want Tori Hunter in our CF slot, his 5 year deal is of no interest to Colletti. We have a big issue with signing FA and not getting anything return. I really don’t know what Colletti was thinking when he signed Andruw instead of Hunter. It really makes no sense. I mean, if your going to sign Juan Pierre to a 5 year…how does Tori not jump on your radar. It always seems that the Dodgers organization gets those second tier, low-hanging fruit players. The always start out engaging us with names like A-Rod…then we end up settling for a guy who hit .222 last season. I swear…just once…I’d like to say finally we made a good signing. ONCE!

Mayles,

Torii was scheduled (from what I had heard) to meet with the Dodgers Thanksgiving weekend before he ultimately took the Angels offer. Kind of hard to assume the Dodgers would have topped what the Angels gave him, so I'm assuming once he saw what the Angels were offering him, he took it and left the Dodgers hanging before they ever got a chance to meet with him.

Now, let me be the one to remind you, because it seems a lot of Dodger fans are not seeing this: Andruw is NOT a .222 hitter. He played through an injury last year that was kept quiet and ultimately affected his production. His career avg is .263, not great, but when you also avg 34 & 100+ in your career, it's sometimes fairly easy to not really be too concerned whether someone hit .263 or .275. Andruw has only hit below his career avg only once (.251 in 1999) until this past season since his first full season in 1997. He's also a 10-time Gold Glove winner. Pierre has never won one.

I'm not convinced, as some people are, that Andruw is on the downside of his career... yet. He's been fairly healthy and fairly consistent throughout his career, so to assume he's going to keep hitting .222 for the rest of his career, or even over the next two years, is kind of wreckless thinking. And, to say the signing makes no sense considering what Vernon Wells got last winter and what the Angels gave Torii makes no sense. It's only TWO years.

As for splurging on Pierre: my thinking is Colletti panicked when Aramis Ramirez re-signed with the Cubs, and Alfonso Soriano, and eventually Carlos Lee, signed elsewhere. He probably didn't think ahead to this off-season knowing guys like Torii, Andruw, Wells, Ichiro and to an extent, Rowand and Cameron, would be available (Ichiro and Wells hadn't signed their extensions yet, so they were assumed at the time Pierre signed to be headed for free agency this winter). Colletti wasn't even convinced Kemp was ready, and decided against bringing back Lofton for one more year (which would have made perfect sense) and instead opted for Pierre and Gonzo. Obviously, Kemp proved him wrong. Now we are where we are.

I agree with Brooklyn that Pierre should be the guy they ship out, even if it is for a bucket of Bazooka Bubble Gum and a couple of BP-used balls.

A little birdie told me that we landed Kuroda....

Another little birdy told me it wasn't a done deal... yet...

Of course, I won't "confirm" anything yet...what would be the fun in that???

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/archives/2007/12/dodgers_have_no.html

TRUST ME...it's gonna happen!

Funny Ned, I've been hearing the same - can't find anything in writing yet..........

Well, this just about sums it up...in writing, no less!

http://www.sanspo.com/mlb/mlb.html

Here's some more backing on my behalf...

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=352959

AND...another, this one from our side of the pacific...

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/archives/2007/12/kuroda_update_h.html

I told you, "TRUST ME...it's gonna happen!"

All I know is I just scored me some SWEEET tickets for opening day at http://www.dodgersticketauctions.com