Win one for mom
The Dodgers, who had previously been wielding brooms with authority, will look to avoid being swept themselves this afternoon by Houston, when Hiroki Kuroda takes the mound against Shawn Chacon for the Astros. It won't happen without a little more production from the sticks. The Blue have scored all of two runs in their last three games, including Saturday night's 5-0 shutout loss to the Astros, in which LA was shut down against a guy whose seven scoreless frames lowered his ERA to a still shoddy 6.27.
Perhaps they can find inspiration from their mothers, as MLB again celebrates Mother's Day around the league. Players will be breaking out the now traditional pink bats and wristbands in support of breast cancer research and awareness.
LINEUPS: Rafael Furcal is still out, Andre Ethier is back, Andruw Jones sits. Perhaps it's to let Jones read his press clippings, first from his conversation on Saturday with TJ Simers, and also from Bill Shaikin, who investigates whether or not his decline, both in the plate and the field, could be the new reality rather than anything temporary.
Dodgers:
Pierre, LF
Ethier, RF
Kemp, CF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
DeWitt, 3B
Young, 2B
Hu, SS
Kuroda, P
Astros:
Bourn, CF
Matsui, 2B
Tejada, SS
Berkman, 1B
Lee, LF
Pence, RF
Wiggington, 3B
Towles, C
Chacon, P
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You know, as scary as the starting pitching is and as poorly as Bills pitched last night, the offense really has to take the blame for that loss.
Bills could have pitched a one hitter and they still would have lost.
God Bless the moms!
Posted by: Andy B | May 11, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Andruw Jones can kiss my ass. I've never been so angry at such a selfish, worthless waste of money. I want a refund on all the Dodger games I've been to this year. This is completely inexcusable, and all Dodger fans should be as upset as I am.
Posted by: Higgins | May 11, 2008 at 12:47 PM
The only change in the lineup I would like to see is ferkal for Hu
Posted by: K T USN (feeling retired) | May 11, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Bill Shaikin makes a pretty good case for Andruw Jones being in denial big time.
Weighing 210 in his prime years and 248 now? And no accountability for being out of shape.?
I guess the fans really DON'T know...
Posted by: Andy B | May 11, 2008 at 01:13 PM
Sounds to me like Simers is baiting AJ.
No doubt AJ has issues, but anyone who has problems doesn't want to hear someone else say "I can do it, why can't you".
I've been a rather harsh critic of AJ, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'd also be willing to throw him a bone, but I'd be afraid he might eat it.
Send him down to the minors to sell some tickets in Vegas and work out the bugs. If he gets snatched up... no biggie. I won't miss his smirk.
Ethier gets a hit after all that rust...SWEET!
Posted by: benzojones | May 11, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Ok so lets say Jones is defensive, and is really trying to work on his problems. That makes it WORSE, not beter!! 120 at bats and he hasn't figured it out. How much time does he need? Maybe this is it. So what will management do then??
David
Posted by: David S | May 11, 2008 at 02:51 PM
Kuroda was through the sixth inning with a no-hitter and a tv shot showed him sitting by himself in the middle of dugout and i pointed it out to my 6 year old daughter and she said, "maybe it's because he's farting". I could stop laughing
Posted by: K T USN (feeling retired) | May 11, 2008 at 03:38 PM
benzo-
No question, that's what he was doing. He's right that Jones is doing himself no favors with either his weight or what seems like a passive attitude, but the idea that he simply doesn't care about his performance is kind of silly, and unsupported by conversations with Jones, his teammates, and his manager.
There's plenty of stuff to bag on him about, but literal apathy isn't one.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 11, 2008 at 03:51 PM
BK and benzo -
Stop being such homers. Now it's TJ Simers' fault for "baiting" Jones? Giving Jones the "benefit of the doubt"?! Jones is the one who said, "I play for myself not the fans." He said it a few weeks ago too. This isn't the first time.
Say whatever you want about his weight, or that he can't hit a lick anymore. That's not what upsets me right now. I am upset with the fact that he is just pissing all over Dodger fans by saying that he doesn't play the game for us, and that we shouldn't boo because "The fans never played the game. They don't know."
How can you possibly defend that kind of attitude towards fans? He might as well just give everybody the finger next time we boo him. I'm sure he isn't passive about his performance, I'm sure he does want to be playing better baseball. I'm sure Simers' criticism of his weight is ridiculous and unnecessary. But you don't just come out and say (on two separate occasions now), that you don't play the game for the fans. And I'm not even a Simers fan most of the time, but he sums it up best when he writes:
"At best, Jones might say "I don't care" because it's a defensive mechanism, but at worst, he lacks common sense, striking out with the fans once again."
20 years (going on 21) without a pennant really frustrates Dodger fans, and Jones' comments only make it worse. They hurt much more than his strikeouts and .170 average.
Posted by: Higgins | May 11, 2008 at 05:11 PM
Stick the pink back where it belongs.
That is the biggest bunch of bull crap ever devised. Don't fall for the pharmaceutical industry BS.
How much money has been raised and what has been accomplished? Nothing.
The recognition is fine, but, the money grab disguised as a search for a cure is nothing but criminal.
Seek out alternative methods that don't cost a fortune if you or a loved one is afflicted.
Posted by: wausroamer | May 11, 2008 at 05:32 PM
Higgins-
Not sure how what I wrote makes me a homer, but anyway....
My point isn't that Jones isn't playing horribly, and I agree that he's doing himself no favors with the crowd by what he says in interviews. You're right, if he was smarter about it, he'd seem more contrite. I'm certainly not saying that fans should lay off him. They buy the tickets, and have every right and reason to jeer. What I'm saying is that the idea that he doesn't care about how he's hitting (the source of the problem) isn't true. He does, though it's worth mentioning that caring doesn't really matter if he continues to hit .160.
Simers touches on it when he suggests it might be a defense mechanism, and I think he's smart enough to know that's what Jones' words are, especially in the face of a very confrontational columnist. Should Jones express himself differently? Absolutely. Even Joe Torre acknowledged that he's made his life harder, but he also acknowledges that it is just that- a defense mechanism. Should he have shown up in shape? Absolutely, and from my angle he's really in no better shape now than he was on Opening Day. He should be criticized for that, even if it has nothing to do with how he's actually hitting. Lord knows I've written about it.
The view Jones is basically expressing, that he plays for his himself and his teammates and to win, is one that's pretty common amongst pro athletes, who understand that they can't really control what fans say and do.
TJ is constructing the argument to read a certain way so that readers are left with the impression that he doesn't care about how he plays. I disagree with the premise, and I think Simers probably would admit there's a lot more nuance to the actual situation than what he wrote. So yes, I think he's baiting him. That doesn't excuse Jones for being sucked in, or for playing as poorly as he has, but it's still baiting.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 11, 2008 at 05:41 PM
A win for the bloggers--Eithier and Dewitt 3 hits each. Pierre playing himself out of starting lineup. Including grounding into a double play in clutch ab. My guess Jones, Eithier, Kemp-starting lineup next game.
David
Posted by: David S | May 11, 2008 at 06:28 PM
Higgins-
You're right... I am a homer and damn proud of it...even though I live in vegas, so theoretically I'm a non-native homer. Hmmmm... does that mean I get a greencard?
I have been super hard on Jones on this blog, so I hardly think I can be classified as a Jones supporter...but....
Really though, can anyone believe that he doesn't care a little? Even jobs that I've hated, I tried to do a good job, and that was without 40,000 people booing me. Jones is a mess, and having Simers bait him into saying that crap is not going to help him find his stroke. Regardless of what anyone says, a guy doesn't go that far south that quick... especially at his age.
He needs a wakeup call... send him down. That warning track power that he has will give him TONS of homers here in Vegas. Build the confidence, and if he gets snatched up... good riddance. call it a rehab assignment to protect his ego... just do something.
BTW - LaRoche hit another one today. It's a Quarterback controversy at 3rd base.
Posted by: benzojones | May 11, 2008 at 07:26 PM
BK -
Did you even read my comments completely? I specifically said that I'm not upset about Jones' performance, or even whether or not he cares about how bad he's doing. I'm sure he's bothered by his poor play. In fact, I specifically wrote:
"I'm sure he isn't passive about his performance, I'm sure he does want to be playing better baseball. I'm sure Simers' criticism of his weight is ridiculous and unnecessary."
Yet you still argued your point to me by writing: "What I'm saying is that the idea that he doesn't care about how he's hitting (the source of the problem) isn't true." I already agreed with you there. That's not why I called you a homer. I called you a homer because by saying that Simers "baited" Jones, you are basically taking Jones' side. The big bad journalist must have confused the poor baseball player. Come on, man. Who cares if Simers did "bait" him into saying something anyway. All Jones has to do is say "no comment" and walk away.
Once again, I'll reiterate my point:
I am upset with the fact that, for at least the SECOND TIME now this season, Jones has said that he doesn't "play the game for the fans." And the first time he said that, he was not "baited" by TJ Simers. It was in an interview for dodgers.com.
I think you have TJ's premise wrong too when you wrote: "TJ is constructing the argument to read a certain way so that readers are left with the impression that he doesn't care about how he plays. I disagree with the premise..."
In my case, the reader (me), is left with the impression that Jones doesn't care about THE FANS. Not that he doesn't care about the way he plays. THAT is why I'm so upset, and that's why every Dodger fan should be upset. That's what I got out of the Simers article.
I could care less if Jones is indifferent about going 0-4 or happy about going 3-4. His feelings about his own performance does not win ballgames. But to say that he "doesn't care what the fans think because (he) doesn't play for the fans" is completely unforgivable and terribly selfish.
And Benzo-
You live in Vegas, so you can't be as upset with Jones bashing the fans. You don't have to pay the $15 parking, the increased ticket, food, drinks, and merchandise prices every season, etc. etc. In other words, you're not paying his salary - I am. And I'm just about done going to Dodger games because of it. After all, Jones doesn't play the game for me anyway so I guess I don't need to be there.
Posted by: Higgins | May 12, 2008 at 12:18 AM
Higgins,
I do have to pay for an elevated cable level, and even with that I can't watch all the games... and sometimes I must watch the stick people on the computer and listen to Charlie Steiner.
That said - I would gladly pay the $15 for parking and I love dodger dogs at any price.
Jones isn't the only player, and to poop on the team just because of him is Marlin-ish.
Posted by: benzojones | May 12, 2008 at 07:12 AM
I think Simmers finally found a patsy that i am glad to see him crack. Simmers is a jerk we all know it, but it is refreshing that somebody is raking him over the coals and pointing out that he has the wrong attitude. With all of the back and forth about simmers vs AJ on the blog, the bottom line is AJ only plays for himself and the $. I don't care if Simmers distorted truth or quotes, it is his job to write something that gets people agitated or talking at the water cooler. Simmers does HIS job, too bad AJ wont do his. With all of his arrogance he comes out and says he doesn't play for the fans. Well baseball is a business, and the fans are the clients... if there are no clients, there is no business. No business no job, and no job no $. I guess Boras doesn't teach his clients basic economics. We as fans/bloggers here are paying to see a product, and if the product sucks we are going to speak out about it. I wont buy a econoline van packaged as a ferarri. Torre wont do anything about it, and management wont do anything to get him going. At least we got some decent efforts out of Drew before he ran for more $. This is almost like watching a trainwreck with Andruw Jones, you cannot turn away, and you hope to see him either run off the tracks, through a barn or if anything get back on track. I am glad I moved to the northwest so i don't have to pay for parking or a seat to pay AJ's salary.
Posted by: poppinfresh | May 12, 2008 at 08:14 AM
Higgins-
Fair point, and you're right, I missed that part of your comment. I apologize for not reading it as closely. Like I said, I understand why, as a fan, you'd be upset about what he's said and how. I guess it just doesn't bother me that much because I've heard so many players say similar things over the years. That they can't worry about what the fans think, that they're not worried about the type of reception they get, that they worry about what their teammates think, not fans who can be fickle, etc. Most say it far more artfully than Jones, but the basic sentiment is the same. Combine that with what I feel is defensive reaction from a guy who is obviously embarrassed by his level of play, and this is what you get.
I think he does care what fans think, in the sense that he cares about the performance that dictates his reception. But you're absolutely right that he should be smart enough not to express himself in the way he has. And it's totally reasonable for you to be pissed about it, and have every right to lay into him at the Stadium.
Basically, I didn't like the implication (especially strong at the end of the Jones part of the column) that Jones doesn't care about playing well. I think there's no question TJ was going at him and baiting him, mining for a specific response- no pity here for Jones, he doesn't have to take the bait, as you say. But assuming you don't buy the notion that Jones doesn't care about playing well, that he's just clocking in to collect a check, than we probably agree on this issue more than I thought.
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 12, 2008 at 08:20 AM
BK-
Thanks for understanding my point of view, and thanks for clarifying things with your latest post. I apologize for venting my frustrations here, but I'm glad the blog is here for that reason! We do agree on the issue, I just read more into the "don't care about the fans" angle than you do.
After reading the article again, I do see where you're coming from in that SImers is implying that Jones doesn't care about his performance. Again, I do agree with you there (I'm sure Jones DOES care about how poorly he's playing). That is one angle to Simers' story, but the other one - about Jones not caring about the fans - is much more important to me.
And it's kinda sad that you are basically desensitized to that type of "fans don't matter" attitude from athletes. I know I've heard it before as well, but man... it just seems to hit extra hard when coming from a Dodger - and a guy who makes $18 million.
Posted by: Higgins | May 12, 2008 at 09:40 AM
Wow, TJ SImers v. Andruw Jones. Who do you root for in that pissing contest? It's like if James Carville and Ann Coulter got into a wrestling match.
Could we arrange an arm-wrestling match between the two men in the hopes that both would sprain their wrists and be unable to ply their prospective trades? In the case of Simers, we'd have to arrange for him to get popped in the mouth as well, so he couldn't dictate his column, but you get the point. Maybe Andruw could just share his lunch with TJ so his mouth would be constantly full and thus be unable to speak.
Posted by: SaMo | May 12, 2008 at 10:13 AM
BK
I think you're wrong. If Jones cared about how he is playing, he would do something about it. Lose weight, hire a trainer ect.ect. He doesn't care about the fans, his team mates or any of the Dodger organization. If he did he would bench himself until he had done something to show improvement. Along with playing poorly, he has no class. He absolutely doesn't care.
Package
Posted by: Package | May 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Package-
You make good points. If he cared, he'd prove it. He shows no remorse, and no intention of making himself better. I'd like to see him at least get pissed off and break his bat over his knee, or throw his helmet or something.
However, I can't completely disagree with BK because I just have to believe that he cares a little bit. I can't believe somebody would be THAT much of an a-hole. I have to believe he still loves baseball and wants to do well - at least for himself if not for anybody else. For the Dodgers' sake, I have to believe that he cares just a little bit.
Posted by: Higgins | May 12, 2008 at 01:29 PM
I think Jones is misunderstood. I'm more to agreeing with BK that Andruw does care. .... he cares too much. He wants to win and do well. He wants to be liked and admired by the fans... so he is trying too hard.
His comments are definitely defensive. But why should he be playing for the fans? If he fails will the fans have his back? Fans only like him when he succeeds and makes their team better... so I ask why would any pro care so much about the fans? Anybody knows that if you produce, fans will cheer and like you and if you don't they boo and think your a weasel. Jones voiced that when he probably shouldn't of. Simple.
Higgins,
I don't get how Jones sucking and saying he doesn't play for the fans can stop you from going to the Stadium to watch your team... one guy doesn't make the team. And I don't even think Jones is that much of a problem. As fans we need to suck it up when a pro says we suck as fans... we boo them everyday and their suppose to be our biggest fan?? Come on, that's kind of contradicting oneself. Andruw gets booed as soon as he gets on the on-deck circle. I feel sorry for the batter in front of him... that guy might get a complex. I think that's why Torre keeps moving Jones in the line-up so the guy batting ahead of him doesn't get a complex. I think some of us fans are a little to quick to judge and boo. Lets at least wait until he makes an out?.. then boo him as he goes back to the dugout. Jones is becoming the Dodgers scapegoat because of his attitude towards his failures. Lets give the guy a chance because I don't think his mentally tough enough right now to get out of his funk. That's the only way to savage Jones year w/ the Dodgers and hopefully if he regains his form, it could really take the Dodgers to the SHIP.
The only Jones Homer on here,
Rob
Posted by: Rob | May 12, 2008 at 02:24 PM
Package-
While I wonder if the weight hurts him more in the field than offensively, I'm certainly not going to defend him on that. Dude should be raked over the coals for not showing up in shape, and having seen the guy without a shirt on, I'm certainly not impressed. He doesn't think it's an issue, so he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to change his body. He's certainly open to criticism for that. But as far as trying to fix his hitting issues, by all reports, be it coaches, other players, etc., he's puttint in the time. Extra work in the cage, doing drills, watching film, working with coaches, etc. He is not pleased to be hitting the way he is, and does care about the result.
Is he handling himself well? No. Should he be booed? Go for it. But Is he unbothered by his performance this season? Absolutely not. That's what I'm saying.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 12, 2008 at 03:11 PM
BK
In an earlier thread before Jones was signed, I asked the question "Wonder why the Braves did not resign Jones". I think they knew that he would not improve his stats or his attitude. The league probably has learned to pitch him low and away and he'll strike out a bunch. Hitting .220 last year and .170 in 112AB this year (That should be a sufficient sample size, don't you think?) It is pretty clear that he is not willing to be accountable for his performance. Is he upset about his performance? Maybe, but displaying that kind of behavior is unnecessary. I feel Higgin's pain. Work hard, pay 15 bucks for parking, plus tickets and food. Or just paying for premium TV to watch the Dodgers, does not give you a good feeling when it appears that a player of Jones experience displays this kind of attitude. Don't these type players understand that the kids are watching them? He is a loser.
Package
Posted by: Package | May 12, 2008 at 04:35 PM
Rob, Rob, Rob....
Respectfully, you could not be more incorrect on so many levels.
You are completely misrepresenting the fan/player relationship. You said that, as a player: "...if you produce, fans will cheer and like you and if you don't they boo and think your a weasel." It's not so black and white, my friend. Andruw Jones is making $14.7 M this season, and another $20 M or so next season. He is SUPPOSED to be driving in runs, hitting HR's, etc. You ask: "why would any pro care so much about the fans?" The fans are paying his salary, Rob. We're the ones who suffer through the ticket increases, parking, etc.
Give fans a little more credit, man. They don't just automatically boo somebody who makes an out. Jeff Kent is in an 0-19 slide or something, and you don't hear fans booing him. They still support him because he has PROVEN himself to be a winner. Mark Sweeney is hitting less than .200. I don't hear anybody booing him. He's only Mark Sweeney, after all.
Andruw Jones isn't just in a little slump, and he's not just some league-minimum pinch hitter who might get 5 AB's a week. He's one of the HIGHEST PAID PLAYERS ON THE TEAM! And he's only driven in 5 runs, with a .170 AVG. He strikes out roughly every 2 AB's. I could go on and on with the stats.
Give the guy a chance because he's not mentally tough enough? Are you kidding me? Aww... poor Andruw! It's the middle of May! Let me know how many more chances I'm supposed to give him.
In the meantime, I'm supposed to just keep on bowing down to him just because he's wearing a Dodger uniform?! I guess we just have philosophical differences when it comes to being a sports fan.
I love the Dodgers. I hope I'm wrong about Jones. I hope he proves me wrong. I DARE him to prove me wrong. I will be thrilled if you wrote back to me in October when "Jones takes the Dodgers to the SHIP" and tell me that I was wrong. But until then, I'm gonna repeat what Package wrote - HE IS A LOSER.
Posted by: Higgins | May 12, 2008 at 05:30 PM