Nomar Injury

My point? It's not absurd managing. The inning got away from them, and they lost the game. Again, it happens.

BK

Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 17, 2008 at 07:50 PM

Bottom of the 5th:
Chad walked a batter before facing LaRouche (sp?)
Chad should have been pulled (near 90 pitch count and LaRouche-again sp?-had hit a homer the previous inng.
Results: two out grand slam.
Bottom of the 7th:
Scott has retired 5 straight batters.
Scott-who is not the greatest pitcher-was on a roll.
Scott is pulled.
Results: two out 8 run inng.
In my opinion, the Dodgers needed to sweep this team to make-up for the embarrassing showing against the Nationals and to keep the pressure on the D'backs.
With this lost, Arizona has a chance to cut the lead to 3 and a half games.
For the past 2 weeks, Arizona look like zombies.
With a win tonight, they will have a pulse.
And a pulse equals hope.
Say it with me BK:
This lost could come back to hunt the Boys In Blue.
Stop with the defending of the Dodgers (just like you defend the soft Lakers that will never win a ring).
passionate Dodgers fan (a.k.a.: passionate Lakers fan).

Unless there was an injury that I don't know about, this game was lost through a bizarre combination of over-and under-managing. Why Pull Proctor with two out and nobody on, when he had been pitching so well. And then once the match-up move failed, why keep in Elbert, the most untested guy in the pen (except McDonald) to pitch to a switch-hitter. And then let him stay in for two more batters? The hook was too quick for Proctor, but not quick enough for Elbert. Yes, the Dodgers are going to lose some, and they've done remarkably well when it's really mattered the last two weeks, but why squander any game with bad managing?

Posted by: Orel in Ohio | September 17, 2008 at 08:00 PM

Best post of the night.

Dodger Dog-

I disagree. 3.5 games is actually a pretty nice amount of breathing room with 10 games left.

I totally dis-agree.
Before this trip began, I felt the Dodger needed to sweep San Diego; instead they took 2 out of three.
After the above series, I felt the Boys In Blue needed to take 2 out of 3 against the Rockies (I knew Cook would be tough) and sweep the Pirates (to make-up for the lone Padre loss).
Tonite's lost was horrible.
This team does not have enough experience yet for you to think 3 1/2 games is "breathing room."
A Buck sweep: now you are talking.
Dodger fans: pray that the boys do not go to Frisco up less than 3 games.

Posted by: passionate Dodgers fan | September 17, 2008 at 08:20 PM

PS: all of the above was meant for BK (and not Dodger Dog)

pDf -

You know, It would be THE BEST possible scenario for the Dodgers to go up to Frisco and CLINCH the Division at AT&T. I would absolutely LOVE that !!!!
But, just imagine the opposite happening.....
Giants knock the Bums out of the playoffs and deny them the 2008 Division Crown......
Makes my stomach turn just thinking about it.
Just to be safe...........
Let's clinch before the Giants series!

Did I miss something??? Kidding. Tough loss, but all hope is not lost. 3 1/2 games UP, not DOWN. We just need to win the series, not every game.

Serenity now, serenity now...

BK,
I agree to some extent on what your saying, the Dodgers still have a 3 1/2 game lead with 10 games to go, not everything is going to click at once, and no they can't win everygame. I'm also keeping everything in perspective I would take 3 out of 4 against any team any day of the week. My only beef is that Joe Torre with all of his managerial experience, with all the world series rings, and pressure games he has managed why would he make a rookie mistake like he did? That was just a bad coaching move.

Posted by: dcerros | September 17, 2008 at 09:10 PM

dcerros:
BK will never (in a blunt manner) attack Joe for his moves.
Instead, he would rather attack us (with his subtle insults), the bloggers.

BK,

The reason we "overreact" is because the team is nicknamed "the choking dogs" for a reason -- just when they give you hope, they crash and burn. When Bills is starting against the worst team in baseball, we should win, period, especially when the likes of Berroa ties the game with two outs. Absolutely bogus decision to pull Proctor during one of his best outings (was I the only one that saw the look of confused surprise on Russell Martin when Torre came to get Proctor after he had just struck out 4 in a row?) So yeah, we're apt to overreact because this team is apt to lose momentum with a loss like this and lose the next six. Not to mention Nomar will likely be done for the remainder (if not permanently). So now we get to see Sweeney come in for the pinch hitting job (though he did have his first hit in about 3 months so that ought to sew up his postseason roster slot!)

passionate Dodgers fan-

I'm not "attacking" bloggers with my subtle "attacks", I'm "attacking" you. If you believe nine of ten is the proper standard on a road trip, even against bad teams, frankly you don't understand enough about baseball to make this a debate worth having.

I've been critical of Torre at different times over the course of the season, especially early when I don't think he managed the lineup very well (Ethier in particular). I've said often throughout the season that Torre has done many of the same things people criticized Grady Little, and certainly don't consider Torre some sort of deity. Off the field, I think he's done a nice job managing the clubhouse (a job made much easier by the importation of Manny, no question). On the field, I think he's like most MLB managers. I think the former is more important, but the latter still matters.

I also would have left Proctor in, but think the change had some logic to it, even if I disagree. As for Bills, how often have we seen him over the course of the year get himself into and out of trouble? Could he have made a switch? Sure. But over the course of the season, if Torre had pulled Bills every time he ran into trouble, he'd be out before the fifth in half his starts.

Loss Leader-

I get the worry from a fan perspective. You can't rest until the division is won, and as the Mets showed last year, it's possible to give a playoff spot away. But one loss doesn't mean the sky is falling, even if it comes against a bad team. It's hard to resist the temptation to imagine the worst, but try.

The team has won 14 of 17. Seems an odd time to complain too much.

BK

BK,

The reason we "overreact" is because the team is nicknamed "the choking dogs" for a reason -- just when they give you hope, they crash and burn. When Bills is starting against the worst team in baseball, we should win, period, especially when the likes of Berroa ties the game with two outs. Absolutely bogus decision to pull Proctor during one of his best outings (was I the only one that saw the look of confused surprise on Russell Martin when Torre came to get Proctor after he had just struck out 4 in a row?) So yeah, we're apt to overreact because this team is apt to lose momentum with a loss like this and lose the next six. Not to mention Nomar will likely be done for the remainder (if not permanently). So now we get to see Sweeney come in for the pinch hitting job (though he did have his first hit in about 3 months so that ought to sew up his postseason roster slot!)

Posted by: LossLeader | September 17, 2008 at 09:41 PM

Thank you, LossLeader, for a great post.
No matter how BK tries to spin it:
Tonite's lost is un-acceptable.
Scott faced 5 batters.
Scott put down those 5 batters.
Scott-based on the above-deserved to get that last out.
The Dodgers-after being down 7 to 4-had tied the game in the top half of the 7th.
If Scott would have been given the chance (a chance he deserved after putting down five batters in a row), he just might have gotten man number six.
And after scoring in the top of the 6th and 7th, the Dodgers would have had all the momentum heading into the top of the 8th.
Joe's stupid "let's play the percentage" move took the air out of the Dodgers sail (and yes, Russell Martin was baffled when Scott was removed).
I just hope tonite's game does not come back to haunt the Boys In Blue (when you only have 10 games left, every lost is huge-especially given the fact that the Dodgers are prone to losing streaks of 4 to 8 games).

Yes, I think anything short of winning nine of ten on the road will be a failure."

-posted by pDf Sept 17, 2008 @ 9:29 PM
___
Whoops - BK tried to give you out, pDf.......you shoulda taken it.
You don't know baseball.
BK is right.

Posted by: ASW | September 17, 2008 at 10:01 PM

Hey, ASW:
Stop kissing BK's butt.
He can fight his own blog battles.
"....You don't know baseball.
BK is right."
Dude (Dudette?), be a leader; not a follower.

Basically this game came down to Kuo not being available. I wouldn't have minded if Torre kept Proctor in the game, but I can also see his reasoning with regard to the decision to bring in Elbert. The next four hitters were, McClouth (L), Doumit (S), Adam LaRoche (L), and Moss (L). McClouth has hit the vast majority of his homeruns against righthanders (remember, the score was tied), and Torre was probably also looking to keep Elbert in the game to open the following inning if he got McClouth.

Let's not panic. Even the PIrates win games (they just completed a weekend sweep of the Cardinals), and the pitcher we're facing tomorrow (Maholm) is no pushover. The only worry is the Dodgers tendency to be streaky. The bigger the lead the better. But which one of us would not have taken a 3.5 game lead after falling behind 4.5 games on August 29. Maybe the D-Backs will get sizzling hot for the remainder of the season and overtake the Dodgers. Stranger things have happened. But then again, maybe not. Take heart. The D-Backs face Lincecum on Thursday. Hopefully he shuts them down, and the Giants find a way to put some runs on the board. Also, hope that it doesn't rain in Arizona, because if it does, the Dodgers will get Lincecum Friday night.

man joe torre took out Proctor when he was getting outs joe doesn`t let the players play

pDf -
Just callin' 'em as I see 'em.
Anyone who admits to believing that 9 out of 10 on a road trip is a failure is - in a baseball sense - a no-nothing twerp.
Easy call.

Posted by: ASW | September 17, 2008 at 10:56 PM

I know I'm not a "twerp."
I do know you are a BK "butt kisser."